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Title: HAZARAT ALI(R.A) ko shiya itna follow qu kertey
Description: y not OUR PROPHET(PBUH)


LoVe_Me_On_Urz_RiSkKzzz - March 4, 2005 10:00 AM (GMT)
shiya loogh HAZARAT ALI(R.A) ko qu itna follow kertey hain y not OUR PROPHET(PBUH)
yeh q nahi samajhtey HAZARAT ALI (Radhiallahu Anhu) ney Our Prophet Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) ko follow kiya thaa

or shiya loogh yeh bhi kehtey hain sirf HAZARAT ALI (Radhiallahu Anhu) chamaktey sitarey hain
tu humarey baki 3 sahaba bhi tu chmaktey huey sitarey hain
pir ap loogh un ko bhi tu follow karein neh sirf HAZARAT ALI (Radhiallahu Anhu) ko hi itna follow q kertey hain



innocent_killer - March 4, 2005 10:03 AM (GMT)
a very gud question lmour
i want to ask da same thing

samina - March 4, 2005 10:30 AM (GMT)
Bhaee humy jo hk pr lagta hy hum ussy follow karty hy.ap ko koi tklf hy kya?

ap kary na bake 3 ko follow.hum aik ko hee follow kar ky bht khush hy.

ap 3ko follow kar ky be skoon main nhee hy hairth hy.

:yikes::

LoVe_Me_On_Urz_RiSkKzzz - March 4, 2005 10:35 AM (GMT)
hum 3 ko qu follow karein ghey hum 4 ko hi follow karein ghey or subh sey ziada hum Our Prophet Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) ko follow kertey hain caz Our Prophet Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) is the last messenger of god

or ap yeh kaho ap k pass jawabh nahi hain

samina - March 4, 2005 10:49 AM (GMT)
ARY MAIN KHOO JAWAB IN TMAM BATOO KA HY MARY PAS LKN MJY TFARKA BAZE NAHE KARNA CHA RAHEE.

HUM KHUDA KAY RASOOL AUR IMAMO KO FOLLOW KARTY HY.AP JISY CHAY FOLLOW KARY HM NT TO NAHE ROKA AP KO.

THEEK AUR AP LOGO KO QURANE REF.NHEE DO GE AP LOG TAFSEER CHANGE KAR DTY HY.

BAKE HUM TO KHUSH HY JSY BEE HY.TKLEF TO AP LOGO KO HY.HMY TO NHEE.

HAK 2 SORTO MAIN KHAMOSH HOTA HY.
1.JB KOI BTH SMJNA NA CHA RAHA HO.
2.JB SB SRF BHAS BRYE BHAS KAR RAHY HO.

IS LYE MAIN HE KAHAMOSHE AKHTYR KAR RHEE HO.

AP LOG BOLOY.COOMON


w-a-n-t-e-d- - March 4, 2005 11:48 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (samina @ Mar 4 2005, 03:49 PM)
ARY MAIN KHOO JAWAB IN TMAM BATOO KA HY MARY PAS LKN MJY TFARKA BAZE NAHE KARNA CHA RAHEE.

HUM KHUDA KAY RASOOL AUR IMAMO KO FOLLOW KARTY HY.AP JISY CHAY FOLLOW KARY HM NT TO NAHE ROKA AP KO.

THEEK AUR AP LOGO KO QURANE REF.NHEE DO GE AP LOG TAFSEER CHANGE KAR DTY HY.

BAKE HUM TO KHUSH HY JSY BEE HY.TKLEF TO AP LOGO KO HY.HMY TO NHEE.

HAK 2 SORTO MAIN KHAMOSH HOTA HY.
1.JB KOI BTH SMJNA NA CHA RAHA HO.
2.JB SB SRF BHAS BRYE BHAS KAR RAHY HO.

IS LYE MAIN HE KAHAMOSHE AKHTYR KAR RHEE HO.

AP LOG BOLOY.COOMON

SAMINA TUM JAWAB DAY BHI NAHI SAKTEIN TUMHARAY BARAY NAHI DAY PAY AJJ TAK IN BATOON K JAWAB...


ISLAM MAIN SHAKHSIYAT PARASTI MANA HAI TUM LOG KARTAY HO..


HUM ALLAH PAK OR ALLAH K BHEJAY HOAY AKHRI RASOOL HAZOOR(SAW) OR UN K KHALIFA QURAN SAB KO MANTAY HAIN....


TUM QURANI KA REF... KAHAAN SAY DOGI TUM LOG TU QURAN KO MANTAY HE NAHI HO....


HUMKO TAKLEEF ES BAAT SAY HAI K TUM LOG JO BHI KARTAY HO ISLAM K NAAM PAY KARTAY HO JAB K IN CHEZOON KA ISLAM SAY TALUQ HE NAHI HAI....


ashhad4u - March 4, 2005 01:01 PM (GMT)
:salam:: to alll...

eik baat yahan par mein mention kardon kay aap logon mien say kisi nay yeh bola kay yeh loog NAbi pbuh say ziada hazrat ali ko follow kartay hain to jaanb yeh baat bilkul ghalat hai... aise koi kahnai nahi hai shaiaon mein.. balkay yeh loog Ahl e Bait say mohabbat kartay hain...
ikhtilaaf kafi baatoon par hai... kay baki 3 sahaba in ki nazar mein waisay Q nahi ??? jab un 4 mein apas mein ikhtilaf nahi tha to hum ya ap kaun hotay hin ukay khilaf kuch sochnay waly .....


choOzi - March 4, 2005 06:32 PM (GMT)
agar aap ko aisa lagta hai keh shai HAZRAT ALI(A.S) ko ziadah follow kertay hain tu hum nabi ki hi pairwi ker rahay hotay hain kun keh HAZRAT ALI(a.s) ka har qol aur fael nabi keh hukum keh mutabiq hota hai....
tu is ka matlab yahi howa na keh shia nabi ko hi follow kertay hain..

ALLAH hafiz

choOzi - March 4, 2005 06:36 PM (GMT)
agar aap ko aisa lagta hai keh shai HAZRAT ALI(A.S) ko ziadah follow kertay hain tu hum nabi ki hi pairwi ker rahay hotay hain kun keh HAZRAT ALI(a.s) ka har qol aur fael nabi keh hukum keh mutabiq hota hai....
tu is ka matlab yahi howa na keh shia nabi ko hi follow kertay hain..

ALLAH hafiz

LoVe_Me_On_Urz_RiSkKzzz - March 4, 2005 06:37 PM (GMT)
tu pir ap baki 3 sahaba ko pir qu nahi follow kertey
hum suni loogh tu subh ko follow kertey hian

ap k pass jawabh hi nahi hian yeh kaho ap

ap subh posting ghur sey perhein pir jawabh dein

choOzi - March 4, 2005 06:43 PM (GMT)
hum un ko follow is lia nhi kertay kunkeh woh khud har mushkil main HAZRAYT ALI(a.s) sa maded mangtay tha
aur hazrat omer na tu weik bar yeh bhi kaha tha keh "ALI tum na hotay tu main halak ho jata"..
aur hum is liya bhi nhi kertay kun keh unhon na janab-e-FATIMA(a.s) ko takleef di aur un ka haq cheena un sa jab keh nabi na kaha tha keh FAIMa(a.s) meray jigar ka tokra hai jis na isay takleef di is na mujhay takleef di tu jis na FATIMA(a.s) ko naraz kia is na mujhay naraz kia...
tareikh agar aap parhain tu aap ko pata chalay ga keh unhon na kia rawaya akhtiyar kia tha rasool allah ki wafat keh bad...

LoVe_Me_On_Urz_RiSkKzzz - March 4, 2005 06:55 PM (GMT)
shaayd ye baath ap ko pata nahi hain
Our Prophet Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam)
"""ney fermaya thaa k aghar merey baadh koi nabhi hotey tu woh Hazrat Umer (R.A) hotey""""
is k barey mey ap kia kaho ghi


ap ka tu akeda hi ghalat hain bus ap ko joh chiz ratwae hue hain wohi kehtey hain ap ap loogh tu yeh bhi kehtey hain k humarey 17 imam hian
wt this aghar ap k 17 hotey hian tu pir hum suniyooh k 17 qu nahi hain humarey 4 qu hain


choOzi - March 4, 2005 07:00 PM (GMT)
pehlay tu main yeh pochna chahon gi keh is hadees ka ravi kon hai....aur kis kitab main hain aur nabi aisi baat kaisay keh saktay hain keh jab ALALH na unhain akhri nabi bana ker bheja tu woh aisi baat kun kahain ga keh meray bad agar......
kun keh nabi ki kisi baat main agar magar nhi tha...

agar aap ko hadeees likhni hai tu aisi likhain keh jis ka ravi ho....

LoVe_Me_On_Urz_RiSkKzzz - March 4, 2005 07:04 PM (GMT)
maney likhi kaha hian maney tu ajh jimey k dars mey suni thi or yeh hadith bhi hian
samjee
lakin meh comfirm ker sey bataon gha
lakin yeh hain hadith

choOzi - March 4, 2005 07:13 PM (GMT)
tu jab tak confirm na ho yeh baat nhi likha karain... aur agar shiaon keh baray main sawal kerna hain ya aap keh zahen main hain tu apni kitabain "sahi" bukhari the old one parhain aap ko saray sawalaton keh jawab mil jain ga...eik sunni writer ki hai..
aisi hadees main na kabhi na tu suni hai na parhi hai...is liya jab aap ko is ki boook aur ravi ka pata chalay tu plzz batai ga takeh main bhi dekh lon..

ALLAH hafiz

LoVe_Me_On_Urz_RiSkKzzz - March 4, 2005 07:14 PM (GMT)
lakin ak baath kaho gha
k
Our Prophet Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) ney fermaya thaa k Hzarat Ali ko khilafit(hakumat) miley ghi lakin un ko nahi mili thi Hazarat Abu Baker (R.A) ko mil ghae thi jis ki wajha sey ap loogh Hzarat Ali(R.A) ko maney lagh ghaey k Our Prophet Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) ney fermaya thaa k Hzarat Ali ko khilafit(hakumat) miley ghi
lakin jabh Hazarat ALI(R.A) ney kuch nahi kaha tu ap loogh qu shor machaney lagh ghaey
pir per ap loogh Hazarat Ali (RA) ko maney lagh ghaey


ashhad4u - March 5, 2005 04:51 AM (GMT)
:salam:::

QUOTE
hum un ko follow is lia nhi kertay kunkeh woh khud har mushkil main HAZRAYT ALI(a.s) sa maded mangtay tha


is say yeh kya zihr hoota hia kay unko follow nahi karooo ?? kya woh Ghalat rastay par thay ??? gar koi duniyawi kamoon mein kisi say madad mangta hia to iska yeh matlab hota hai kay woh ghalat hia ???????
aur kya sirf hazrat Ali say hi loog madad mangtay thay ???? Ali ki zaat e Ali par unko eeman na tha kya ?????

QUOTE
aur hum is liya bhi nhi kertay kun keh unhon na janab-e-FATIMA(a.s) ko takleef di aur un ka haq cheena un sa jab keh nabi na kaha tha keh FAIMa(a.s) meray jigar ka tokra hai jis na isay takleef di is na mujhay takleef di tu jis na FATIMA(a.s) ko naraz kia is na mujhay naraz kia...


First of alll Hazrat Umar (RAZ) ashra Mubashra mein shamil hian.. Allah swt nay khud inki maghfirat ka ailan Quran mein kya hia intamam akabir sahaba ka... Abu bakr Uthman Ali n Umar also included in this... but yeh kay Fatima (RA) ko kisnay takleef pohanchaye yeh quran nahi balkay hadith say bata rahi hain aap.. jabkay hamaray paas primary source of information Quran hia .... agar eik cheez quran mein saaf mazkoor hia aur agar hadith uskay against jati hia to hum Quran ko follow kartay hain na kay hadith ko.....

agar allah swt nay unki maghfirat ka wada kya to its mean kay allah SWT ko bhi future ka pata hai .. kya allah swt nay aisay hi unki maghfirat ka wada kardia ??? kya (maazallah) allah ko yeh nahi pata tha kay agay jakay yeh loog deen kay munkir hojaingay ????

QUOTE
tareikh agar aap parhain tu aap ko pata chalay ga keh unhon na kia rawaya akhtiyar kia tha rasool allah ki wafat keh bad...


I preffer Quran.... de basic source.....

QUOTE
pehlay tu main yeh pochna chahon gi keh is hadees ka ravi kon hai....aur kis kitab main hain aur nabi aisi baat kaisay keh saktay hain keh jab ALALH na unhain akhri nabi bana ker bheja tu woh aisi baat kun kahain ga keh meray bad agar......
kun keh nabi ki kisi baat main agar magar nhi tha...

agar aap ko hadeees likhni hai tu aisi likhain keh jis ka ravi ho....


Hadith from Mishkat Sharif

QUOTE
"sahi" bukhari the old one parhain aap ko saray sawalaton keh jawab mil jain ga...eik sunni writer ki hai..
aisi hadees main na kabhi na tu suni hai na parhi hai...is liya jab aap ko is ki boook aur ravi ka pata chalay tu plzz batai ga takeh main bhi dekh lon..


wat do u mean by sahih bukhari OLD one ????? kya ab jo sahih hadith hain woh implemented hain ?/???
kya nabi kay zamanay mein hadith nah ilihkee gayen ???



aaman_minoo - March 6, 2005 07:07 PM (GMT)
HAZRAT ALI (A.S) ka her amal HAZRAT MUHAMMAD(S.A.W) ka amal hay hum HAZRAT ALI (A.S) ko follow karain ya HAZRAT MUHAMMAD(S.A.W) baat aik hi hay kyun kay APP (S.A.W) nay khud farmaya hay kay "Ali (A.S) ko mujh se wohi nisbat hai jo Haron(A.S) ko Musa(A.S) se thi" yani kay ager App (S.A.W) kay bad koi nabi hota tu woh HAZRAT ALI (A.S) hotay

aap aik baat batain k Islam jo itna mukamal mazhab hia jo hum ko paani peenay k adab se lay kar kapray pahnay k aadaab tak batata hai jo hum ko yah batata hai k ghar se nikalty waqt under aaty waqt kia duaa perhni chahiay tu yah batao k Khilafat jaisa mamlaa jo k sub se imp hai k Nabii (S.A.W) k baad kon mulims ka ameer hoga baghair kuch kahy baghair chor jain gay is baat ka jawab dain tu aagay baat ho gi kyun k jo hadeez main likhon gi us par Emaan lana aap k bas ki baat nahi hai is liay pahly is mamly par ghor kar lo

LoVe_Me_On_Urz_RiSkKzzz - March 6, 2005 08:39 PM (GMT)
reference to ur 1st para

follow tu ap Our Prophet Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) ki all hadithey kertey hian tu HAZARAT ALI (Radhiallahu Anhu) kaha sey aghey ap loogh tu abh compare kerney lagh ghaein hai thats wrong ...... hum un ko(HAZARAT ALI (Radhiallahu Anhu) bhi or tamam sahaba ko ak jasa rutda deytey or ak hi tarazo mey tultey hain or un ki tamam batein and wakiyat ko follow kertey hain or or parvi hum Our Prophet Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) ki kertey hain with all HIS(PBUH) hadith caz hes the last messenger of God.
or nakal bhi hum ko Our Prophet Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) ki zindaghi ki kerni chahiyeh
takey hum akel istamal hi neh karein jasey k ap shiyaa logooh ney akel istamal ki or apney ap religion change kerliya Our Prophet Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) k time tu koi shiya tha hi nahi tu yeh shiya kaha sey aghaey zahir c baat hain unhooh ney akal istamal ki or firqooh mey bath ghaey

or ap ki hi sis ney uper likha thaa k
[QUOTE]kun keh nabi ki kisi baat main agar magar nhi tha...
or ap zara apney message ghor kerney ki tofeeq karein

then wts this

mOhSiN - March 7, 2005 12:32 AM (GMT)
aisi koi baat nahi hai hum huzur-e-akram(saw) ko bauhat mantay hain un jaisi shaksiat kainat main kisi aur ki nahi hai aur hazrat ali(a.s) nabi(s.a.w) kay bad sab say pehlay aatay hain yaar dekho meray bhai agar rasool -e- akram (saw) ko nabi mantay hoo un kay bataye huay raston par chaltay hoo tou hazrat ali(a.s) ko mola q nahi mantay tum log yaar dekho woh makaam jahan par hazoor(s.a.w) nay hazarat ali(a.s) ki maulaiat ka elan kiya tha woh jaga thi jahan say har shehar ka rasta alag alag hoo raha tha sham ka alag madenay ka tou meray hazorr(s.a.w) nay sab ko roka aur kaha kay jo agay nikal gaye hain woh pechay aajaein jo yahin kharay hain woh yehan hi beth jaein ....... ( hazoor(S.a.w) nay bata diya kay agay yani mustakbil , "yahin" yani haal (present) )

hazoor(s.a.w) nay kaha sahab-e-akram (s.A.w) say kay member lao member yani jis par beth kar khudba diya jata hai sahaba nay jawab diya ya rasool allah(S.A.w) jungle hai biaban hai yehan kaaisay lein tou meray rasool (S.A.W) nay kahan agar la nahi saktay tou banao phir sahaba -e-akram (S.A.W) nay kaha kay na auzar hain kaisay banaein member phir rasool (S.A.W) nay farmaya kay yeah jo ount(camel) hain in par bethay wali( lakri ki koi cheez hoti hai meray zehan say naam nikal gaya hai) woh jama karo aur ek kay upar ek kar kay rakh doo meray hazoor (S.A.W) nay khudba dena tha sahab-e-ikram(S.A.W) nay hazur (S.A.W) kiay farman kay mutabik kiya (((arab main us zanamay main agar kisi ko khudba dena hota tha tou ya tou kisi lambay admi ki kamar par chahrh kar khudba detay thay ya phir ount kay upar beht kar diya jata tha yehan hazoor kay dastay main lambay kaad wale bhi thay aur ount bhi par hazoon (S.A.W) nay un main say kisi ko nahi kaha ))) hazoor(S.A.W) member par bethay aur khudba diya laiallaha ilallah ( allah ek hai ) mauhammad un rasool allah (mauhamad allah kay nabi hain ) aur ali un wali allah ( hazrat ali(a.s) wali hain) aur phir woh ayatein parh kar sunaein kay ajj mein nay tumhare liye deen ko mukamal kar diya tou batao kalmay main q nahi aaye ali un wali allah ...............aur haan jab khudba tamam hua tou hazoor(S.A.W) nechay aaye member say aur kaha abb wapis utaro sab lakri kay bethay wali cheez....
app yeah dekho kay hazoor(S.A.W) member par bethay hazrat ali (a.s) kay fazayal bayan kar rahay hain majma hai sahaba-e-akram ka tou majlis bhi sunnat-e-rasool(S.A.W) hui kay nahi hui hum bhi yeahi sunat agay liye chal rahay hain..........


hazrat umer ko is liye nahi mantay kay jo unhonay nay bibion kay sath kiya tha jab woh un kay ghar gain thin tou dhakay maaray nauzobiallah un kay honay wala bacha bhi ........... hazrat ayesha ko iss liye nahi q kay hazrat ali (a.s) kay khilaf unhonay jang ka ellan kiya tha .................

dekho jab yeah kehtay hain kay kay umer khulfa -e-rashiden main shamil hain tou tum woh yaad karo kay jab hazoor (S.A.W) kay wafat ka time tha tou allah say kaha meray rasool(S.A.W) nay kay mujahy meri ummat ka mustakbil bataein tou allah nay mana kar diya tha aur yeah sab hazoor ki waffat kay bad hii hua hai jab khilafat par hazrat umer aur abu bakar nay hazrat ali say mukharna shuru kar diya tha

matam is liye kartay hain kay jab woh ghazwa-e-auhad ka wakia tha hazoor(S.A.W) ka dant -e-mubarak shaheed hua tha tou sahaba-e-akram nay apnay saray dant toor diye thay aur hazoor nay kuch nahi bola tha .... yaar yehan tou hazoor(S.A.W) ka sara khandan shaheed kar diya gaya kaisay na karein matam bbibi zainab kay sir say khoon sab say pehlay nikla jab imam mera shaheed hua ..........

asal main masla yeah hai kay app loog talkeen tou kartay hain par puri baat nahi samajhtay ...

ek jaga muhasra hoo raha tha shia aur sunni allimonn ka bauhat hi parhi likhi mehfil thi sirf ek mula tha bech main khanay ka break tha tou ek taraf table kay sunni ullma aur ek taraf shia ullma tashreef farman thay mula nay sawal kiya ek shia allim say kay ek baat bataein kay shia aur kafir main kya fark hai yeah koi sawal nahi tha us mehfil main pochnay ka q kay jitni adab aur mulahisay say batt cheet hoo rahi thi wahan ....shia alim nay thora socha aur phir bolay kay ek table ka yeah sunna tha aur sab uth kar chalay gaye .....................


dekho meray bhai main app ki burai bhi karna chah raha par jo asal baat hai woh tou app follow karo na ya agar nahi kar saktay tou dusray ko talkeen bhi na karo yeahi time allah ki ibadat main guzar do aur usi say keho kay hum ko sahi rah par chalaye .......... main nay ashes kamaskam 5 mahinay bad khola hoo ga aur yeah sab.... khair app ko agha karna bhi humara farz hai warna kayamat kay din allah sawal karay ga.....

mOhSiN - March 7, 2005 12:43 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (LoVe_Me_On_Urz_RiSkKzzz @ Mar 7 2005, 01:39 AM)
nakal bhi hum ko Our Prophet Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) ki zindaghi ki kerni chahiyeh
takey hum akel istamal hi neh karein jasey k ap shiyaa logooh ney akel istamal ki or apney ap religion change kerliya Our Prophet Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) k time tu koi shiya tha hi nahi tu yeh shiya kaha sey aghaey zahir c baat hain unhooh ney akal istamal ki or firqooh mey bath ghaey


who kehtay hain lakeer kay fakeer dekho bhai change kuch nahi kiya sab waisa hi hai bas masla hai ttou app logon kay sath jo samajhna nahi chahtay bhai............... fajar ki azan main asala tu khairum minanaaouh q barhaya zara koi waja tou batao..................
ilam hasal karna chahiye aur ilam hi yeah sab cheezein sikhata hai .... afaaki sahab majlisein parhtay hain shair hain 30 saal ki umar main shuni say shia convert huay allim-e-deen hain aur kuch din pehlay hi unhonay ek sher parha tha kay main kufur say ilam ki taraf aaya hoon aur abhi banday ki umar 34 hai ....... bhai ghoor karo kitnay log hain jo azadari ko mantay hain sab say ziada manat ki niaz aur nazar charhanay wale suni hi aatay hain azakhanay main ............

ashhad4u - March 7, 2005 08:22 AM (GMT)
^ sister Aaman Minooo

QUOTE
HAZRAT ALI (A.S) ka her amal HAZRAT MUHAMMAD(S.A.W) ka amal hay hum HAZRAT ALI (A.S) ko follow karain ya HAZRAT MUHAMMAD(S.A.W) baat aik hi hay kyun kay APP (S.A.W) nay khud farmaya hay kay "Ali (A.S) ko mujh se wohi nisbat hai jo Haron(A.S) ko Musa(A.S) se thi" yani kay ager App (S.A.W) kay bad koi nabi hota tu woh HAZRAT ALI (A.S) hotay


Respected sister .. here i m not critisizing the status of sahaba..mujhay jitni mohabbat umar n usman(RA) say hia utni hi Ali (RA) say... but Nabi (PBUH) kay barabar koi sahaba nahi hosakta chahay woh Umar / Abu Bakr (RA) hi Q na hoon... baat eik nahi hoosaktee....
aur jaisay kay aapnay Hadith farmaye MOSA n Haroon ki to again.. Haroon (AS) ka n MOOSA (AS) ka darja bohat alag alag tha.... Allah SWT nay khud Moosa (AS) say qalam kya but Haroon say nahi kya... Haroon (AS) nabi thay jabkay Moosa (AS) rasool.....

QUOTE
aap aik baat batain k Islam jo itna mukamal mazhab hia jo hum ko paani peenay k adab se lay kar kapray pahnay k aadaab tak batata hai jo hum ko yah batata hai k ghar se nikalty waqt under aaty waqt kia duaa perhni chahiay tu yah batao k Khilafat jaisa mamlaa jo k sub se imp hai k Nabii (S.A.W) k baad kon mulims ka ameer hoga baghair kuch kahy baghair chor jain gay is baat ka jawab dain tu aagay baat ho gi kyun k jo hadeez main likhon gi us par Emaan lana aap k bas ki baat nahi hai is liay pahly is mamly par ghor kar lo

bilkul janab nabi pbuh nay is chez ka faisla duniay mein hi kardia tha kay meray baad kaun khalifa banaiga aur jab yeh faisla us wakt kya tha us time Hazrat Ali (RA) bih wahan par maujood thay.... but mujhay nahi maloom kay shia hazrat is haqeeqat say Q parda farmatay hain.. jab Hazrat Ali ko hazrat abu bakr kay khalifa bannay par koi aitraz nahi tha to aap kaun hooti hain aitraaz karnay wali ???


ira - March 7, 2005 09:37 AM (GMT)
SALAM SISTER AND BROTHER,

QUOTE
bilkul janab nabi pbuh nay is chez ka faisla duniay mein hi kardia tha kay meray baad kaun khalifa banaiga aur jab yeh faisla us wakt kya tha us time Hazrat Ali (RA) bih wahan par maujood thay.... but mujhay nahi maloom kay shia hazrat is haqeeqat say Q parda farmatay hain.. jab Hazrat Ali ko hazrat abu bakr kay khalifa bannay par koi aitraz nahi tha to aap kaun hooti hain aitraaz karnay wali ???



ASHES ESE KHA LKHA QRAN MAIN TOO NHE HY.NA HE RASOOL KE ZINDGE KA WKIA HY YA.AP KO KIS NY BATEE YA BTH?????????????????//

LoVe_Me_On_Urz_RiSkKzzz - March 7, 2005 12:19 PM (GMT)
ashhad ney sahi tu kaha hain

abh ap ko knowlege nahi hain tu usmey humari kia ghalti

ira - March 7, 2005 12:23 PM (GMT)
swal ashes sy keya hy ap sy nhe love on ur risk.

LoVe_Me_On_Urz_RiSkKzzz - March 7, 2005 12:24 PM (GMT)
pehley safey mey maney bhi yahi baath likhi hain

ashhad4u - March 7, 2005 07:59 PM (GMT)
:salam:: brother Mohsin...

really glad to see ur reply.. :)

reply karnay say pehlay eik chez mein aapko bata don kay hum lgoon kay paas information kay 2 sources hain 1st one is Quran (primary Source) n second one is Hadith (secondary Source) ... Hadith ki authenticity chek karnay ka sab say acha tareeka jo kay mohaddithen say chuna aur ummat ko bataya woh yeh hai kay aga rkoi hadith Quran kay agaisnt jati hai to usmein zaroor koi na koi rawi Dhaif hoota hai aur Quran kay against jani wali cheez hum follow nahi karsaktay...
jasiay kay 200 Hadtih aise hain jin mein yeh bola gaya hai kay Quran mein implementation hoi hia.. but yeh sab ki sab hadith Dhaif hain coz Allah swt nay khud Quran mein farmaadia hai kay

Its is who we revealed this Quran n certainly we preserve it

bilkkul isi tarha Quran ki bohat si ayatain hain jahan par Allah SWT nay sahaba ki azmat ka zikr kya hai.. agar koi shakhs koi aise hadith paish karta hai jinemin is sahaba kay against koi baat hoo to hum usko Dhaif qarar daingay coz woh Quran kay against hoogi...

I heop u understand...

QUOTE
hazrat ali(a.s) nabi(s.a.w) kay bad sab say pehlay aatay hain

Ahle sunat wal jamat ka ischeez par iktifa hai ka nabi pbuh kay baad jo insanon mein jo sab say afzal zaat hai (xcept Nabi) woh hazrat Abu bakr (RA) ki hia.. aur hadith say bhi yehi sabit hai ..

Nabi pbuh nay farmaya :: Abu Bakr Siwaye nabion kay sab insanon say afzal hain.
Reference from Tibrani


sorry to say here i m not comparing the status of sahaba but just telling u the reality .. I think u take this positively... any way....
coz hazrat Abu bakr (RA) woh wahid shhakhs hain jinkay peechay aap PBUH nay khud namaz parhe hai ..
Qayamat kay din jab logon kay hissab ka wakt kareeb aiga to Allah swt bohat Jalal mein hongay aur Nabi pbuh Hazrat Abu bakr ka hath pakar kay Allah kay agay khara kardaingay.. aur Allah swt sb say pehlay Hazrat Abu bakr ka hisab laingay aur iskay baad inka Ghussa thanda hojaiga...

yeh to sirif hadith hain.. Hazrat Abu bakr (RA)ki shan mein jo Quran ki ayatain nazil hoi woh yeh hain..

1 Woh shakhs yani sadaq yani Quran aur deen lay kar tashreef laye (hazrat Abu bakr ) nay iski tasdeeq ki

2 Anqareeb door rakha jaiga is shakhs (abu bakr siddiq) ko jo apnay maal ko tazkiah kay liya ada kartay thay iska mansha yeh nahi tha kay koi iski in naimatoon ka badla day balkay iska mansha aur aqeedah apnay rab e ala kay khushnoodi hasil karni hia aur kareeb hi woh rab apni razamandi ka izhaar karaiga..

3 jab nikal dia tha kafiron nay yani Nabi pbuh aur (abu bakr) ko jabkay woh donon hazrat ghaaar (cave) mein thay aur jabkay isnay apnay sathi yani (abu bakr) ko kaha tha kay fikar mat kar beshak Allah hamaray sath hai..


iskay ilawa bohat si aise ayatain jin mein sahaba ki azmat ka tazkara batadreej araha hai...


QUOTE
yaar dekho meray bhai agar rasool -e- akram (saw) ko nabi mantay hoo un kay bataye huay raston par chaltay hoo tou hazrat ali(a.s) ko mola q nahi mantay

wat do mean by this ?? kya hum hazrat Ali (RA) ko nahi mantay ??? ji janab aise hargiz nahi hai in logon ka jo status hai us tak to shyad koi pohanch bhi nahi sakta... yeh apni apni sooch ki baat hai .. alhamdulillah ahle sunnat wal jamat tamam sahaba ko dil say mantay hain...
aur buraye karnay ko Guanh e kabira samajhtay hain coz nabi pbuh nay khud farmaya hai kay

Meray baad meray sahaba ko galian mat daina agar tumhain uhad pahar kay barabar soona bhi milay too


aur aapki Mola say kya murad hai ?? kya hum bih Ya Ali madad keh kar Khullay aam Shirk karain ??? its impossible... madad sirf Allah karta hai na kay Ali (RA)


QUOTE
hazoor(s.a.w) nay kaha sahab-e-akram (s.A.w) say kay member lao member yani jis par beth kar khudba diya jata hai sahaba nay jawab diya ya rasool allah(S.A.w) jungle hai biaban hai yehan kaaisay lein tou meray rasool (S.A.W) nay kahan agar la nahi saktay tou banao phir sahaba -e-akram (S.A.W) nay kaha kay na auzar hain kaisay banaein member phir rasool (S.A.W) nay farmaya kay yeah jo ount(camel) hain in par bethay wali( lakri ki koi cheez hoti hai meray zehan say naam nikal gaya hai) woh jama karo aur ek kay upar ek kar kay rakh doo


1st plz provide reference
2ndly.. is hadith mein jis tarah sahaba ko hukum dia jaraha hai kya ap samajhtay hain kay nabi pbuh kabih sahaaba koi jabran koi kaam karnay ka hukum daingay ??? jabkay sahaba kay aur musalmanon kay halat us wakt kya thay yeh sab ko maloom hai... any way...
any way... i dun wanna discus the authenticity of hadith here just bak to the point

QUOTE
hazoor(S.A.W) member par bethay aur khudba diya laiallaha ilallah ( allah ek hai ) mauhammad un rasool allah (mauhamad allah kay nabi hain ) aur ali un wali allah ( hazrat ali(a.s) wali hain) aur phir woh ayatein parh kar sunaein kay ajj mein nay tumhare liye deen ko mukamal kar diya tou batao kalmay main q nahi aaye ali un wali allah


janab nabi pbuh nay bilkul bola kay Ali (RA) allah kay doost hian.. but kya nabi pbuh nay yeh bola kay Umar Usman Abu bakr (RA) allah kay dushman hian ??? agar hazrat Ali (RA) allah kay wali hain to doosray sahabaioon kay darjay bih bohat buland hian..aur jahan tak rahi kalmay ki baat to kya kabhi nabi pbuh nay yeh bola kay Ali un wali ullah ko kalmay mein add karooo ???
jab nabi pbuh nay apna akhri khutba dia to us time takreban 1.25 lakh sahaba hazir thay... agar nabi PBUH ka hukum hoota kay isko kalmay mein add karoo to sab shaba aaj balkay sb musalman aaj yehi kalma parh rahay hootay.. na kay sirf Shia hazrat.. aur kya kabhi hazrat Ali (RA) nay yeh bola kay yeh kalma parhoo ????

QUOTE
app yeah dekho kay hazoor(S.A.W) member par bethay hazrat ali (a.s) kay fazayal bayan kar rahay hain majma hai sahaba-e-akram ka tou majlis bhi sunnat-e-rasool(S.A.W) hui kay nahi hui hum bhi yeahi sunat agay liye chal rahay hain..........


ji janab allah swt nay in sahabaoon ko status hi aisa dia tha kay inkay fazail nabi pbuh bhi bayan kartay thay jaisay ...

Nabi pbuh nay farmaya

Meri ummat mein meri ummat par sab say ziada meharban abu Bakr (RA) hain..
reference :: Tarmizi , Muatah imam Malik

Abu Bakr (RA) tum hauz e kausar mein bih meray rafiq hoogay aur tum Ghar mein bhi meray rafiq thay
reference :: tarmizi Sharif


aur iskay ilawa ause bohat si ahadith jismein sahaba ki azmat ko khud aap pbuh nay define kya.. but afsoos kay aaj hum mein say kuch usko tasleem nahi kartay..


QUOTE
hazrat umer ko is liye nahi mantay kay jo unhonay nay bibion kay sath kiya tha jab woh un kay ghar gain thin tou dhakay maaray nauzobiallah un kay honay wala bacha bhi ...........

yahan par agar koi shkahs aisa ilzaam hazrat Umar par lagata hai to its mean kay woh baat Quran kay against hai coz surah fatah meinkhud allah swt nay in logon ki maghfirat ka ailan kardia hai...

Surah fatah verse # 18

agar koi shakhs phir bhi yeh bolta hai kay maghfirat ka ailan karnay kay baad yeh loog deen kay mnki rhogaye to its mean kay allah swt nay aisay logon ki maghfirat ka quran mein wada karlia jo kay (maazallah) iskay liya ahel nahi thay.. aur kya allah swt ko nahi pata tha kay yeh loog agay jakay deen kay munkir hojaingay ????
Think about it..

Naib pbuh nay farmaya

Allah nay umar (RA) ki zaban par haq ko jari farmaya
Reference :: Behaqi

Meray baad Abu Bakr (RA) aur Umar (RA) ki iqtida karna
Reference :: Mishkat

Meray baad asmanon par 2 wazer hian Jibrail n mekhail aur zameen par do wazeer hain Umar n Abu Bkar (RA)
Reference :: Tarmizi


aur iskay ilawa najanay kitni ahadith kay jis mein nabi pbuh nay in sahabaon ki azmat ko bayan kai... agar mujhay koi inkay baray mein ghalat baat kahaiga to mein sirf yeh sochonga kay woh quarn kay against hai aur mein usko radd kardonga... aur yehi iski authenticity chek karnay ka tareeka hai..

Hazrat Ali n Umar Farooq

jab hazrat abu bakr (RA) kay inteqal ka wakt kareb aya to hazrat ali nay majmay say khitab kartay hoay farmaya kay
" meiany ehad (WADA) kya hia ... kya tum is par razamand hotay hoo ?? logon nay jawab dia aye khalifa e rasool pbuh hum is baat par razi hain.. hazrat Ali (RA) nay farmaya kay hum Umar bin Al khattab kay baghair kisi doosray shakhs par razi nahi hoongay... "
lihaza aisa hi hoa aur hazrat ali (RA) sameet tamam akabir sahaba nay hazrat Umar par bait farmaye...

Reference :: Asad ul ghaba Vol 2 Page 7 ,


again kya aap shia hazrat un logon ko nahi mantay jinki azmat ka aitraaf nabi pbuh nay bhu aur khud hazrat ali nay bhi kya... ??? agar ab bhi koi inkay against baat bolay to mein samjhonga kay woh one sided decision hai..
I hope u think neutrally.. :)

QUOTE
hazrat ayesha ko iss liye nahi q kay hazrat ali (a.s) kay khilaf unhonay jang ka ellan kiya tha .................

Jang e Jamal... history parhnay kay baad yeh baat saaf samajh mein ati hia kay yeh jang musalamon kay against bohat bari sazish say hoi the.. any way yeh history ka eik true face hai jis say hum mon nahi more saktay.. but kya hazrat ali nay us wakt Hazrat Aisha (RA) kay against kuch bola ???
nahi... balkay kisi shakhs nay hazrat Aisha ki shaan mein koi ghalat baat boli to hazrat ali (RA) us shakhs par bohat ghussa kya aur farmaya kay tuhmain pata hai kay yeh kaun hain ???

QUOTE
dekho jab yeah kehtay hain kay kay umer khulfa -e-rashiden main shamil hain tou tum woh yaad karo kay jab hazoor (S.A.W) kay wafat ka time tha tou allah say kaha meray rasool(S.A.W) nay kay mujahy meri ummat ka mustakbil bataein tou allah nay mana kar diya tha aur yeah sab hazoor ki waffat kay bad hii hua hai jab khilafat par hazrat umer aur abu bakar nay hazrat ali say mukharna shuru kar diya tha


yeh tamam man gharat dastain hain ... jab nabi pbuh nay apnay ahkri lamhat mein hazrat abu bakr ko chuna to us time hazrat ali (Ra) bhi wahan par maujood thay us time to unhin koi aitraaz nahi hoa phir hum yaaap kaun hotay hain aaj unpar aitraaz karnay waly ???
aur hazrat Abu bakr Jabran muslims kay khalifa nahi banaiay thay balkay nabi nay khud unko is kam kay liya muntakhib kya tha...

QUOTE
matam is liye kartay hain kay jab woh ghazwa-e-auhad ka wakia tha hazoor(S.A.W) ka dant -e-mubarak shaheed hua tha tou sahaba-e-akram nay apnay saray dant toor diye thay aur hazoor nay kuch nahi bola tha .... yaar yehan tou hazoor(S.A.W) ka sara khandan shaheed kar diya gaya kaisay na karein matam bbibi zainab kay sir say khoon sab say pehlay nikla jab imam mera shaheed hua ..........


jab mohammad owais qurni (RA) nay apnay saray dandan e mubarak shahed karliya to nabi pbuh nay unko tanbiah farmaye ... again nabi ka koi hukum Quran kay against nahi hoota.. agar koi shakhs yeh bolta hai kay nabi pbuh nay unko aisa kam karnay par shabashi di ya khush hoay to its mean kay (maaazallah) nabi ka hukum Quran kay against hai jismein allah swt nay musalmanon ko sabar kanrnay ki talqeen ki hai...

aur matam jaise koi cheez kabhi deen ka hissa hoi hi nahi hai... agar matam islam ka hissa hota to nabi pbuh hazrat Hamza kay liya matam kartay...
hazrat ali nabi pbuh kay liya matam kartay...
hazrat hasan n hussain (RA) hazrat ali kay liya matam kartay... but aise koi cheez kabhi deen ka hissa rahi hi nhi hai...
agar koi shahks yeh bolta hai kay matam fitrat mein hai to extremisim nah ihai islam mein.. islam kahin par yeh nahi bolta kay apnay aapko nuksan pohanchaoo... well agar apko apna jazba dikhana hai to un rastoon par chalain jin par hazrat hussain (RA) chalay.. aur deen ko sarbuland kya..

QUOTE
asal main masla yeah hai kay app loog talkeen tou kartay hain par puri baat nahi samajhtay ...

hum loog talqeeen kartay hian to sirf Quran ki roshni mein kartay hain.. respected brother allah hum sab ko sedhi rah dikhaye aur neutrally sochnay ki taufeeq day.. jab koi chez deen ka hissa nahi hai to hum usko kis tarha deen mein aadd karsaktay hian... ???

QUOTE
ek jaga muhasra hoo raha tha shia aur sunni allimonn ka bauhat hi parhi likhi mehfil thi sirf ek mula tha bech main khanay ka break tha tou ek taraf table kay sunni ullma aur ek taraf shia ullma tashreef farman thay mula nay sawal kiya ek shia allim say kay ek baat bataein kay shia aur kafir main kya fark hai yeah koi sawal nahi tha us mehfil main pochnay ka q kay jitni adab aur mulahisay say batt cheet hoo rahi thi wahan ....shia alim nay thora socha aur phir bolay kay ek table ka yeah sunna tha aur sab uth kar chalay gaye .....................

hum loog yahan par kisi ki dastanain sunnay nahi atay balkay apnay apnay aqaid ko breif kartay hian.. allah swt sab say apna apna hisab laingay.. mujhsay aapka na aapsay mera... so plz concentrate on topic.. takay is discussion ko peacefully agay barhaya jasakay..

QUOTE
dekho meray bhai main app ki burai bhi karna chah raha par jo asal baat hai woh tou app follow karo na ya agar nahi kar saktay tou dusray ko talkeen bhi na karo yeahi time allah ki ibadat main guzar do aur usi say keho kay hum ko sahi rah par chalaye .......... main nay ashes kamaskam 5 mahinay bad khola hoo ga aur yeah sab.... khair app ko agha karna bhi humara farz hai warna kayamat kay din allah sawal karay ga.....

janab bohat bohat shukria aapka.. kay aapnay hamaray forum par visit kya.. :) hamain bohat khushi hoti hai jab koi islamic section mein peacefull tareekay say open minded discussion karta hai aur apnay aqaid say agah karta hai...

allah swt nay khud quran mein mosa (AS) say farmaya ky FIRON say manazra karoo but lehjay mein narmi rakhna...

jasiay kay nabi pbuh nay farmaya kay meri ummat mein 72 firqay hongay eik firqa jannat mein jaiga .. jo sirf quran n sunnat ko follow kar raha hooga.. mujhay nahi pata kay mera firqa kaunsa hi.. ??? mein sirf sirat e mustaqeem par chalna chahta hon.. agar shia hazrat mujhay qail kardain kay SHIAISM sahi hi to mein neutrally action longa... :)
aur deen kay baray mein behas karna koi buri baat nahi but hamain yeh khayal rakhna chahiya kay kahin hum koi aise baat to nahi kar rahay kay jis say hamara eeman zaya horaha hoo.. ya kisi aisay shakhs kay khilaaf kay jiski azmat ka zikr allah nay khud kya hoo....

any way... waiting for ur reply

thanx n allah hafiz..

n Allah knows da best



mOhSiN - March 8, 2005 04:54 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (ashhad4u @ Mar 8 2005, 12:59 AM)
:salam:: brother Mohsin...

really glad to see ur reply.. :)

reply karnay say pehlay eik chez mein aapko bata don kay hum lgoon kay paas information kay 2 sources hain 1st one is Quran (primary Source) n second one is Hadith (secondary Source) ... Hadith ki authenticity chek karnay ka sab say acha tareeka jo kay mohaddithen say chuna aur ummat ko bataya woh yeh hai kay aga rkoi hadith Quran kay agaisnt jati hai to usmein zaroor koi na koi rawi Dhaif hoota hai aur Quran kay against jani wali cheez hum follow nahi karsaktay...
jasiay kay 200 Hadtih aise hain jin mein yeh bola gaya hai kay Quran mein implementation hoi hia.. but yeh sab ki sab hadith Dhaif hain coz Allah swt nay khud Quran mein farmaadia hai kay

Its is who we revealed this Quran n certainly we preserve it

bilkkul isi tarha Quran ki bohat si ayatain hain jahan par Allah SWT nay sahaba ki azmat ka zikr kya hai.. agar koi shakhs koi aise hadith paish karta hai jinemin is sahaba kay against koi baat hoo to hum usko Dhaif qarar daingay coz woh Quran kay against hoogi...

I heop u understand...

QUOTE
hazrat ali(a.s) nabi(s.a.w) kay bad sab say pehlay aatay hain

Ahle sunat wal jamat ka ischeez par iktifa hai ka nabi pbuh kay baad jo insanon mein jo sab say afzal zaat hai (xcept Nabi) woh hazrat Abu bakr (RA) ki hia.. aur hadith say bhi yehi sabit hai ..

Nabi pbuh nay farmaya :: Abu Bakr Siwaye nabion kay sab insanon say afzal hain.
Reference from Tibrani


sorry to say here i m not comparing the status of sahaba but just telling u the reality .. I think u take this positively... any way....
coz hazrat Abu bakr (RA) woh wahid shhakhs hain jinkay peechay aap PBUH nay khud namaz parhe hai ..
Qayamat kay din jab logon kay hissab ka wakt kareeb aiga to Allah swt bohat Jalal mein hongay aur Nabi pbuh Hazrat Abu bakr ka hath pakar kay Allah kay agay khara kardaingay.. aur Allah swt sb say pehlay Hazrat Abu bakr ka hisab laingay aur iskay baad inka Ghussa thanda hojaiga...

yeh to sirif hadith hain.. Hazrat Abu bakr (RA)ki shan mein jo Quran ki ayatain nazil hoi woh yeh hain..

1 Woh shakhs yani sadaq yani Quran aur deen lay kar tashreef laye (hazrat Abu bakr ) nay iski tasdeeq ki

2 Anqareeb door rakha jaiga is shakhs (abu bakr siddiq) ko jo apnay maal ko tazkiah kay liya ada kartay thay iska mansha yeh nahi tha kay koi iski in naimatoon ka badla day balkay iska mansha aur aqeedah apnay rab e ala kay khushnoodi hasil karni hia aur kareeb hi woh rab apni razamandi ka izhaar karaiga..

3 jab nikal dia tha kafiron nay yani Nabi pbuh aur (abu bakr) ko jabkay woh donon hazrat ghaaar (cave) mein thay aur jabkay isnay apnay sathi yani (abu bakr) ko kaha tha kay fikar mat kar beshak Allah hamaray sath hai..


iskay ilawa bohat si aise ayatain jin mein sahaba ki azmat ka tazkara batadreej araha hai...



ashad ma bro
dekho meray bhai yeah brackets main naam jab hazoor(s.a.w) ka zamana tha us waqt nahi likhay gaye thay isi liye hum loog bhi in ayaton par bhes nahi kartay, q kay app translation ko kahan say kahan lay jatay hain baki jo quran ki aayatein hain un hi roshni majalison main dee jati hai agar app sun saktay hain tou sunein azadari.com dekho meray bhai jab bhi hum koi hadees paish kartay hain tou app kehtay ho k galat hai quran say dalayal baian kartay hain tou bhi galat hotay hain yeah jo bhi aayat app nay deen hain us main ( ) main naam aaya hai translation tou abhi hui hai na 1200 saal bad .... tou umer aur abu bakar na mannay wale app dekh lo ...........plz if u can try to read this book by a non muslim guy but a strong historian .....


THE SUCCESSION TO MUHAMMED by Wilfred Madelung


i must say its better not to say anything which u dont know coz this little things often create mis understandings among sects . How can u say that we shia love Maula Ali (AS) more than Prophet(PBUh).how can u do that?even Maula Ali said him "Aaqa".how can u leave Maula Ali`a Aaqa behind??? does it make any sense.Maula Ali learnt from Mohammad(Pbuh).as far as the love from Maula Ali is concerened Prophet (PBUH0 himself said
"apni mehfil ko Ali (AS) ka zikr say sajaya karo" he said more abt him "Ali ka chehra (face) dekhna bhi Ibadat hay so this proves that how much Prophet Love Maula Ali (AS) .. "Mun kuntu Maula Fahaza Ali un Maula" to whom i m master Ali is his master"i dont think that there is anything left .yeah one thing more Imam hussain (as) said "kay meray pass aisi 2 cheezin hay jo dunia may kisi ka pass nahi ..1; aik meray Nana Prophet (PBUH) and 2: meri Amma BB FATIMA (as) Imam hussain jin ka baray may aisa bol dayn tu phir hamari kia Auqqat hay (sorry for the urdu but it was necessery to help her understood),For God sake think before saying anything coz this may lead to misunderstandings among ppl.

ashhad4u - March 8, 2005 07:41 AM (GMT)
:salam:::

QUOTE
dekho meray bhai yeah brackets main naam jab hazoor(s.a.w) ka zamana tha us waqt nahi likhay gaye thay isi liye hum loog bhi in ayaton par bhes nahi kartay,


Q haqeeqat say moon more rahay hoo ??? yeh woh baat tain hain jo nabi pbuh nay khud bataee hain... nabi pbuh kay sath CAVE mein kuan tha ??? yeh baat q nahi pochtay ??? uthaoo tafseer dunaiy ki koi si bhi.. kya likha hia usmein ??? kya .. yeh to wohi baat hoi kay kisi piyasay kay samnay pani rakha hai aur woh usko peena nahi chah raha hai aur phir bih chillla raha hai....

QUOTE
q kay app translation ko kahan say kahan lay jatay hain baki jo quran ki aayatein hain un hi roshni majalison main dee jati hai

aap sirf Quran ki tafseer say baat krarain.. kaunsi tafsser kya bolti hai aap woh batain.. websites mujhay bhi hazaraoon pata hain... lihaza sirf topic par concentrate karain...

QUOTE
dekho meray bhai jab bhi hum koi hadees paish kartay hain tou app kehtay ho k galat hai quran say dalayal baian kartay hain tou bhi galat hotay hain

Dera brother .... aap dalail kay stah sirf quran par hi behas karlain.. hadith par na ain.. i m ready aur inshallah mein proof kardonga wid evidence kay kaunsi ayat kis kay baray mein nazil hoi .. aur agar koi hadith quran kay against jayegi to hum obviously usko neglect kardaingay.... chahay woh kitnay hi baray rawai say Q na naqal ki gaye hoo...
aur aapko implementation par agar shak hai to woh bhi mein door kardonga... would u like to discusss it wid me ???

QUOTE
yeah jo bhi aayat app nay deen hain us main ( ) main naam aaya hai translation tou abhi hui hai na 1200 saal bad .... tou umer aur abu bakar na mannay wale app dekh lo ...........

janab ismein jo naam likhay gaye hain woh wohi nam hain jin ka ismein anay ka haq banta tha ... takay logon ko pata chal jaye kay kaun kaun nabi pbuh kay sath tha... jin ayatoon mein hazrat abu bakr (RA) ka zikr hoa hai .. CAVE mein to aap kya bolaingay unkay baray mein kya woh hazrat abu bakr (RA) kay baray mein nahi hain ayatain? ?? ya koi aur hai wahan par ?? ya hazrat ALI (RA) ????


QUOTE
plz if u can try to read this book by a non muslim guy but a strong historian .....

THE SUCCESSION TO MUHAMMED by Wilfred Madelung


i must say its better not to say anything which u dont know coz this little things often create mis understandings among sects . How can u say that we shia love Maula Ali (AS) more than Prophet(PBUh).how can u do that?even Maula Ali said him "Aaqa".how can u leave Maula Ali`a Aaqa behind??? does it make any sense.Maula Ali learnt from Mohammad(Pbuh).as far as the love from Maula Ali is concerened Prophet (PBUH0 himself said
"apni mehfil ko Ali (AS) ka zikr say sajaya karo" he said more abt him "Ali ka chehra (face) dekhna bhi Ibadat hay so this proves that how much Prophet Love Maula Ali (AS) .. "Mun kuntu Maula Fahaza Ali un Maula" to whom i m master Ali is his master"i dont think that there is anything left .yeah one thing more Imam hussain (as) said "kay meray pass aisi 2 cheezin hay jo dunia may kisi ka pass nahi ..1; aik meray Nana Prophet (PBUH) and 2: meri Amma BB FATIMA (as) Imam hussain jin ka baray may aisa bol dayn tu phir hamari kia Auqqat hay (sorry for the urdu but it was necessery to help her understood),For God sake think before saying anything coz this may lead to misunderstandings among ppl.


Only Quran ... books to beech mein lay kar hi nahi aoo janab.. mein bih hazroon boks kay references day sakta hoon but meray nazdeek Quran say ziada best chez koi nah ihai ....


thanx for ur reply ...
allah hafiz..

mOhSiN - March 8, 2005 12:19 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ashhad4u @ Mar 8 2005, 12:59 AM)
:
QUOTE
yaar dekho meray bhai agar rasool -e- akram (saw) ko nabi mantay hoo un kay bataye huay raston par chaltay hoo tou hazrat ali(a.s) ko mola q nahi mantay

wat do mean by this ?? kya hum hazrat Ali (RA) ko nahi mantay ??? ji janab aise hargiz nahi hai in logon ka jo status hai us tak to shyad koi pohanch bhi nahi sakta... yeh apni apni sooch ki baat hai .. alhamdulillah ahle sunnat wal jamat tamam sahaba ko dil say mantay hain...
aur buraye karnay ko Guanh e kabira samajhtay hain coz nabi pbuh nay khud farmaya hai kay

Meray baad meray sahaba ko galian mat daina agar tumhain uhad pahar kay barabar soona bhi milay too


aur aapki Mola say kya murad hai ?? kya hum bih Ya Ali madad keh kar Khullay aam Shirk karain ??? its impossible... madad sirf Allah karta hai na kay Ali (RA)


QUOTE
hazoor(s.a.w) nay kaha sahab-e-akram (s.A.w) say kay member lao member yani jis par beth kar khudba diya jata hai sahaba nay jawab diya ya rasool allah(S.A.w) jungle hai biaban hai yehan kaaisay lein tou meray rasool (S.A.W) nay kahan agar la nahi saktay tou banao phir sahaba -e-akram (S.A.W) nay kaha kay na auzar hain kaisay banaein member phir rasool (S.A.W) nay farmaya kay yeah jo ount(camel) hain in par bethay wali( lakri ki koi cheez hoti hai meray zehan say naam nikal gaya hai) woh jama karo aur ek kay upar ek kar kay rakh doo


1st plz provide reference
2ndly.. is hadith mein jis tarah sahaba ko hukum dia jaraha hai kya ap samajhtay hain kay nabi pbuh kabih sahaaba koi jabran koi kaam karnay ka hukum daingay ??? jabkay sahaba kay aur musalmanon kay halat us wakt kya thay yeh sab ko maloom hai... any way...
any way... i dun wanna discus the authenticity of hadith here just bak to the point

QUOTE
hazoor(S.A.W) member par bethay aur khudba diya laiallaha ilallah ( allah ek hai ) mauhammad un rasool allah (mauhamad allah kay nabi hain ) aur ali un wali allah ( hazrat ali(a.s) wali hain) aur phir woh ayatein parh kar sunaein kay ajj mein nay tumhare liye deen ko mukamal kar diya tou batao kalmay main q nahi aaye ali un wali allah


janab nabi pbuh nay bilkul bola kay Ali (RA) allah kay doost hian.. but kya nabi pbuh nay yeh bola kay Umar Usman Abu bakr (RA) allah kay dushman hian ??? agar hazrat Ali (RA) allah kay wali hain to doosray sahabaioon kay darjay bih bohat buland hian..aur jahan tak rahi kalmay ki baat to kya kabhi nabi pbuh nay yeh bola kay Ali un wali ullah ko kalmay mein add karooo ???
jab nabi pbuh nay apna akhri khutba dia to us time takreban 1.25 lakh sahaba hazir thay... agar nabi PBUH ka hukum hoota kay isko kalmay mein add karoo to sab shaba aaj balkay sb musalman aaj yehi kalma parh rahay hootay.. na kay sirf Shia hazrat.. aur kya kabhi hazrat Ali (RA) nay yeh bola kay yeh kalma parhoo ????

QUOTE
app yeah dekho kay hazoor(S.A.W) member par bethay hazrat ali (a.s) kay fazayal bayan kar rahay hain majma hai sahaba-e-akram ka tou majlis bhi sunnat-e-rasool(S.A.W) hui kay nahi hui hum bhi yeahi sunat agay liye chal rahay hain..........


ji janab allah swt nay in sahabaoon ko status hi aisa dia tha kay inkay fazail nabi pbuh bhi bayan kartay thay jaisay ...

sory for the late reply jus for the power falier


WE Used To call him Molaa As Our beloved Prophet (pbuh) Used this WOrd for Ali (a.s) in Hajjatul Wedda the day whn Our Religion Islam was completed ....

Man Kuto Mola fa Haza Ali un Mola....
...jis ka main maula us ka ALi maula..
these r the words Prophet(pbuh) used .... ill also post the details of tht Kudba later... for ur ref
SO shortly we are following the Sunat Of prophet (saw).. and this is enough as a reason for calling Ali(a.s) mola..

U r takin all of it in a wrong way......to ask anyone EXCEPT Allah is a sin.but to ask anyone to intervene is not a sin.let me remind u ke khaliq aur maabood ke mabain taluq kaim karwanay walay bhi yeh imam aur nabi hi hain.jab khuda ne apni hidayat insanoon ko direct nahin pohanchayi balkay waseelay chunay...to phir hum kyun nahin in waseelon se madad mang saktay.is belief ke saath ke karnay wlai to sab kuch khuda ki zaat hai magar woh waseelay hamain hadayat de saktay hain to hamari problems solve bhi kar saktay hain..
Hum kabhi yeh tasawwur nahin kar saktay ke hamaray nabi ya imam apni zaati taqat se hamari madad kartay hain. Hamaray Aima Tahireen apni khudadad salahiyatoon aur taqatoon se hamaray masail hal kartay hain aur yeh baat to bilkul darust hai ke dunya waloon ka sara ilm, saari taqattain, tamam tar salahiyatain chahada masoomeen ke ilm, salahiyatoon aur taqatoon ke muqablay main aisi hi hain jaisay suraj ke muqablay main rakh ka zarra. Is liye hum Ya Ali Mada ya Ali maula yun to har waqt hi kehtay hain laikin un mushkillat main khas taur par kehtay hain jinhain na to koi doctor door kar sakta hai, na hi dunya ka koi engineer, badshah ya wazir.
Haan yeh baat bilkul darust hai ke Allah ke siwa kisi se sawal karma shirk hai laikin jin hastiyoon se sawal karnay ki ijazat khud allah ne di ahi in se sawal karma shirk nahin ain ibadat hai. Agar koi insaan doosray insaan se yeh samajh kar sawal karay ke who insaan apni zaati taqat se masla hal kar de ga to yeh shirk hai. maslan aik mareez yeh samjhay ke usay jo sihat hasil hoi hai woh doctor ki zaati salahiyat ya dawa ki taseer se haasil hoi hai to usne doctor ya dawa ko allah ka shareek bana dia. yeh shirk hai. laikin agar aik mareez yeh yaqeen rakhta ho ke zindagi, maut, sihat eyh sab allah ke haath main hain aur ilaaj mualja sihat yaabi ka aik zariya hai, doctor ke pass jo ilm, shafa yaabi ki taqat hai aur dawa main marz ko khatam karnay ki jo taseer hai uska paida karnay wala allah hai yeh salahiyatain, ilm aur taseer doctor ya dawa ko allah hi ne ata ki hain ato aisi surat main apna ilaaj karwana wajib amal hai aur ibadat sa darja rakhta hai. Ab tum khud hi batao ke rozana lakhoon karoroon musalman haspataloon main doctors hata ke ghair muslim doctors se shafa yaabi ke liye madad mangaty hain aur sihat yaab ho jatay hain. ab agar yeh log beemari ki surat main sirf dua hi kartay rahain to na sirf bohat jald maut ke mun main chalain jayain gay balkay allah ki azeem naimat yaani jism aur sihat ki hifazat na karnay ki saza ke bhi mustahiq hotay. Aur bohat si misalain mujood hain maslan gari ki battery kharab ho jaye aur koi insaan yeh chahay ke sirf allah ko pukaranay se battery dobara charge ho jaye to aisa kabhi bhi nahin ho sakta. makan bannay ke khawahishmand afraad sirf khaali plot par beth kar ya allah ya allah kartay rahain to is plot par qiyamat tak koi imarat tameer anhin hogi. Makaan bananay ke liye engineers, naqsha bananay walay, mistari, mazdooron aur cement ki zaroorat hoti hai.
SIrf duayoon se na deewarain uth sakti hain na chatain par sakti hain, is liye ke dunya ALAM I ASBAAB hai yaani yaha har cheez ke honay ke liye kisi na kisi sabab ki zaroorat parti hai. Allah tala ne zindagi ke liye zaroori tamam asbaab dunya main paida kiye hain, yahan insaan hi insaan ke kaam ata hai laikin allah tala ke hukam, iraday aur taufeeq ke mutabiq is liye ke MUSABIB_I_HAQEEQI yaani in asbaab ka asal khaliq o malik allah hai. AB jis tarah mareez shafa yaabi ke liye doctor se, makan bananay ke khawahish mand afraad mistari mazdoroon se aur ilm ke talabgaar usataza se madad ke talabgar hotay ahin, isi tarah IHL-e-BAIT ke mananay walay apnay nabi HAZOOR -i-PAk, ameer ul momineen hazrat Ali, un ki aulaad main se ksii bhi imam se madad mangtay hain to yeh shirk anhin AIN IBADAT HAI.
I HOPE I MANAGED TO CONVINCE U...IF NTO THEN I WILL SAY THAT MISHA AGAR AAP ALLAH NA KARAY AGLI DAFA BEEMAR HOIN TO DOCTOR KE PASS MAT JANA CUZ DOCTOR ALLAH NAHIN HAI AUR GHAIR ALLAH SE MADAD MANGNA SHIRK HAI.

Imam Ali (AS) as a Vali or Maula proved from Quran:

[Shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
The following explanations of the Holy Qur'an state that this divine verse was revealed in honor of Imam Ali's (as) when he gave his ring to a beggar whilst he was bowing during prayers.

Proved from Hadeeth:

Collection of hadeeth provided by suni’s scholar Dr Tahir ul Qadri in his book “Ghadir Declaration”. Please visit the link:

http://www.research.com.pk/home/fmri/books...dex.minhaj?id=0
http://www.research.com.pk/home/fmri/books...dex.minhaj?id=0

I think this is proved that we can use maula for Imam Ali (as) as ALLAH and Muhammad (PBUH) used for Imam Ali (as).


i m just pasting the link to make u sure that these are the books!!! ap jab gadeer kay wakiay ko pooch saktay hoo kay kon sa wakiya hai tou main kya bolon phir!!1



hukum ka app ko is liye lag raha hai q kay main nay shayad is wakiyae ko sahi tarhan baiyan nahi kiya...



sunni ) Follow Sunnat-E-Ali (Ahle sunnat Kalma )
and We Follow Sunnat-e- Rasool (Ahle Tashi Kalma )
if u wana know tht how, then i have an authentic reason (According to many books of AHL-E-SUNNAT and AHL-TASHEE ) ..



In ZULASHEERA : "Jub Huzoor (saw) ne HIDAYAT daina start ki thi HAZRAT ABDUL MUTTALIB(as) K ghar to farmaya .....

" K aaay giroh-e - Abdul muttalib ! MAY TUMHARE LIE DUNYA OR AKHRAT KI BEHTAREEN NAIMATAIN LAY KER AYA HOON .. TUM ME SE KON HAY JO MERI MADAD KARAY , MERA BHAI BANAY , OR MERA WASI BANAY or JO MUJH SE MADAD KA WADA KARAY GA WOH AAJ SE MERA WAZEER HOGA , AAJ HI SE MERA KHALIFA HOGA ...


NOW u pplz tell me k is msg may LA ILAHA ILLALALAH kahan hay , Is may MUHAMMAD_RASULULLAH kahan hay ..........................

Payghumber(s.a.w) ne abhi ISLAM ka zikar bhi nahi kiya thaaa k MOLA ALI (a.s) uthay or kaha k " MAY GAWAHI DAITA HOON K ALLAH AIK HAY OR MUHAMAD (SAW) uske RUSOOL hayn ( jo k ahle sunnat ka kalma hay ) Means SUNNAT-E-ALI hay ..

Mola Ali farmatay hayn k " MAY AAP KI ATAAT KAROONGA , AAPK DUSHMANON KI HADDIAN TORONGA , APNI JAAN QURBAN KERDOONGA , MAIRE BAAP NE MUJHE AISI HI TARBIYAT DI HAY K RISALAT KO BACHAO "

Huzoor (saw) ne Jub ye suna to Mola Ali (as) k qareeb aaye or MOLA ki gurdan per PYAR se haath phera . Saare Mujmay se mukhatib ho ker farmaya ...

" JO SUN RAHA HAY WOH SUNLAY , JO DAIKH RAHA HAY WOH DAIKHLAY , ALI MERA MADADGAR HAY , MERA WASI HAY , ALLAH KA WALI HAY "

90 Crore muslims jo kalma parh rahe hayn woh ALI ki sunnat hay , NABI k nahi ... ! . khair aagay sunyeee

Jub Mola Ali (as) ne NABI (saw) ki tasdeeq kerdi to PAYGHAMBER(s.a.w) ne apna waada poora kertay howe farmaya k

" LA ILAHA ILLALALAH MUHAMMAD_RASULULLAH ALI-YEN-WALI-UL-ALLAH WA WASI -UR-RASOLL-UL-ALLAH WA KHALIFATAHU BILA FASL .. turjuma ( Nahi hai koi ma'bood siwaey Allah Key, Aur Mohammad (saw) Allah key Rasoul Hain Aur Ali Allah ke Wali hain aur be shak un(Rasool) ke khalifa(JanNasheen,Naib) Hain!!!) ......
jo k sunnat-e-rasool hoi means shiat kalma

It clearly means k (sunni ) wohi KALMA parhtay hayn jo subse pehle MOLA ALI (a.s) ki zaban se nikla or hum iske saath woh GAWAHI bhi daite hayn jo k ALLAH k RUSOOL (saw) ne Di ......
Ab ager kisi jhangvi jaise ko lafz-e- Wali Per Aiteraz hay to i wana tell u pplz this . i shud tell the meaning of this WORD "WALI " to u . diz word have many many meanings but i m telling u sum of these ...

WALI means
" SARPARAST" ,,,,,,,,,,," MOHABBAT KERNAY WAALA " ,,,,,,,,,,,,"DOST" ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,," MADAD KERNAY WAALA
etc according to ARABIC LANGUAGE

Ab bhi ager kisi ko word WALI se aiteraz hay to deewar per sir maarnay ka mashwara daine se pehle to Aaap ko is QURAN ki aayat se bhi inkar kerna paray ga jiss may irshad hota hay k


Aye nabi s.a.w , woo msg dein jo app par app ka parwardigar ki taraf se nazil houa hai ... agar app ne ya na kiya tu app ne nabuvat ka koi kaam hi nahi kiya .. aur Allah app ko logon se bachanay wala hai !..." (Qur'an 5:67).


Refrences :
? Tafseer Mazhari by Thanaullah Panee Pathee Volume 3 page 143
? Tafseer Kabeer Volume 3 page 472 narrated on the authorities of Ibn Abbas, al-Bara Ibn Azib, and Muhammad Ibn Ali.


Sura-e-Maida me aik or jaha irshad hota hay ...

" ALLAH MOMINEEN KA WALI HAY , US KA RUSOOOL WALI HAY OR WOH WALI HAYN JO HAALAT-E-RUKOOH MAY ZAKAT DAITE HAYN" .... (Surah Maida ki Ayat 55)
and bhaion history is sure k MOLA ALI (SA) ne HAALAT-E-RUKOOH may Aik Sayil ko Apni Anghooti (Ring) Zakat may dii....


That's why we believe that Rasulullah (s) explicitly left a successor and that:

(1) It was Imam Ali (as)
(2) With this appointment he (s) inherited the same rights over the people as did Rasulullah (s)
(3)The Wilayat of 'Ali is so important that we will be asked about it on the Day of Judgement
N E ways ,,,, Jisay samjh aagayi to us ka baira paar ho gaya.. or jo ab bhi kehta hay k kalmay may CHANGING ki hay to meri DUA hay k usay KHUDA hidaayat day Or Usay Ilm ka shaher(RASOOL) or ous shaher ka DUR(ALI) ILM aata karay ..................Ameeeeeen !


here a lot of ppl ask that how ALI (as) Could give the ring to beggar as he was busy in pray and he also said that if ALI (as) GAVE it so it means ALI broke his NAMAZ ( mazalllah) .


My Answer to my this frend that i gatherd all this Information which i send u to this topic ,from Ahle sunnah books too as well as shiat books .

My Bro Listen to me ,That beggar asked 3 times to other pplz to give him any thing but there was no Response than this beggar cum to leave and said that " AY ALLAH ! AM GOING BACK FROM UR DOOR WITH EMPTY HANDS " it was the time when my mola Gave him Ring ,

Well u agree to me or not , i don care , but whole world AGREE and there is no Doubt About Ayah Wilah ( Surae-e-Maida )which came into place after this situation ,

God Gave Ali(as) reward in the face of Ayah for half pray ( as per u said ) , then can u imagine Ali (AS) 's REWARD for complete parays :) .

By the way go and read Suraye Baqra'z Ayah number 143 , inwhich ALLAH ordered Holy Prophet (pbub) to turn to face into the side of Khana-ekaba instead of BAITAL MUQADDAS and Holy Prophet changed his face .

So ?? was it half pray OR BROKEN PRAY ?????

i want to add some more knowledge for those who dont have.....

the usool-e-din.....roots of religon...is divided into two categories.......

one is USOOL-E-ISLAM.....in this category...there are three beliefs...
1) Tauheed(Belief in the unity og GOD ALMIGHTY)
2) Nabuwat(Belief in the messemgers of Allah)
3)Qayamat(Belief in the day of judgemet and life hereafter)

abb jo shaks in teen beliefs par emaan le aya...woh shaks musalmaan kehelwata hai...he is called musalman......

the another category is USOOL-E-EMAAN......in which it comes two more beliefs

4)Imamat(Belief in the 12 imams)

5)Adal(Belief in the justice of GOD ALMIGHTY)

now a person who beliefs in these two additional beliefs including the first three...he is called MOMIN......

to abb rha kalma ka sawaal...jo shaks LA ILA HA ILLALLAH MUHAMMADIO RASSULALLAH parhay ga woh musalmaan to jo jayega laikin momin nahi.....

Hamara kalma.....ALI UN WALI ULLAH WASI O RASUL ALLAH WA KHALIFATU BILA FASL.......ko jo bhi parh lega woh musalmaan ke saath saath momin bhi ban jayega........

to hum kia huye ....MOMIN.......

maula salamat rakhay YA ALI MADAD kehnay walo ko.....

ashhad4u - March 8, 2005 05:07 PM (GMT)
:salam::: Mohsin..


first of all i would like to tell u kay mein Hzrat Ali . Hasan n Hussain ki bih itni hi respect karta hoon jitni kay Umar Abu Bakr Usman (RA) waghaira ki karta hoon.. aur in logon ka jo muqaam hai jo rutba hai wahan tak to hum loog phoanch bhi nahi saktay...



QUOTE
WE Used To call him Molaa As Our beloved Prophet (pbuh) Used this WOrd for Ali (a.s) in Hajjatul Wedda the day whn Our Religion Islam was completed ....

Man Kuto Mola fa Haza Ali un Mola....
...jis ka main maula us ka ALi maula..
these r the words Prophet(pbuh) used .... ill also post the details of tht Kudba later... for ur ref
SO shortly we are following the Sunat Of prophet (saw).. and this is enough as a reason for calling Ali(a.s) mola..


jasiay kaay aapnay bola kay jab nabi pbuh nay yeh alfaz bolay kay jiska mein mola uska ali mola uar yeh bih faramya kay deen mukammal hogaya to janab iskay sath nabi pbuh nay Surah Anfaal ki kuch ayatain bhi parheen then.. any way.. agar accordin to shia beleif kay ALi un wali ullah kalmay ka hissa hoota to nabi pbuh zaroor ummat ko yeh boltay yeh parhoo unhonay yeh bola zaroor tha kay ali un wali ullah aur yakeenan bola hia but unhonay yeh nahi bola kay is cheez ko kalmay mein add karoo..
as i mentioned earlier kay us time 1.25 lakhs sahaba maujood thay even Hazrat Ali (RA) khud bhi maujood thay kya us din kay baad hazrat Ali (RA) yeh kalma parhna start kardia ??? kya kabih kisi sahabi nay isko as a Kalma recite kya ????

agar yeh kalmay ka hissa hoota to kya nabi pbuh isko parhnay kay baad boltay kay deen mukammal hogaya ???? yani kay jisnay yeh parha nahi iska deen mukammal nahi ???
aur us say pehlay jo dawat e tableegh nahi pbuh daitay rahay woh to incomplete hogaye ????


QUOTE
U r takin all of it in a wrong way......to ask anyone EXCEPT Allah is a sin.but to ask anyone to intervene is not a sin.let me remind u ke khaliq aur maabood ke mabain taluq kaim karwanay walay bhi yeh imam aur nabi hi hain.




001.005 Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
Al-Qur'an, 001.005 (Al-Fatiha [The Opening])


i think u r talking about WASEELA... plz correct me if i m wrong...
allah swt nay yeh kahin bola kay agar direct mujhsay mangoo to mein nahi doonga ??? balkay Surah fatiha mein saaf saaf yeh baat agaye hai kay

HUM TERI HI IBADAT KARTAY HAIN AUR TUJHISAY MADAD MANGTAY HAIN

kya ap yeh sochtay hain kay agar aap allah say direct mangaingay to allah swt aapki baat nahi sunaingay ???



QUOTE
jab khuda ne apni hidayat insanoon ko direct nahin pohanchayi balkay waseelay chunay...to phir hum kyun nahin in waseelon se madad mang saktay.is belief ke saath ke karnay wlai to sab kuch khuda ki zaat hai magar woh waseelay hamain hadayat de saktay hain to hamari problems solve bhi kar saktay hain..

Allah swt nay insaan ki rahnumaye kay liya apnay khas bandon ko yani nabion ko chuna but allah swt apna mesg convey karnay mein nabion kay mohtaj nahi thay Mind it !
jaisay kay allah Surah e ikhlaas mein farma rahay hain
Alllah o Samad
yeh to allah ki shan nahi hai kay woh kisi banday say khud kalam karay ...but agian allah apna mesg Convey karnay mein Nabion kay mohtaaj nahi hian...

aur jaisay kay aapnay bola kay HUM Q IN WASEELON SAY MADAD nahi mang saktay
madad aap insay nahi mang saktay balkay Inkay waseelon say mang saktay hain.. Q kay yeh madad dainay kay qabil nahi hain ab..

aur jasiay kay apnay bola kay yeh waseela aapko hidayat daingay .. to janab Allah swt nay saaf Quran mein farma dia hai kay

HIDAYAT SIRF ALLAH HI TARAF SAY HIA aur jisko Allah ki hidayat mili woh kamiyab hogaya

aur allah kay ilawa na hi to koi aapki Problem solve karsakta hai... aur madad dainay wali zaat sirf allah ki hia... agar aap yeh sochtay hain kay Ya Ali madad kehnay say aapki madad horahi hia to yeh Shirk hai Q kay Ya arabic word jis kay meaning hi Hazir o Nazir kay ya Maujood rehnay kay ...
ya agar aap kisi ko muhatib kar rahay hain too...
agar koi shakhs ya ALI madad bol raha hai to its mean kay woh yeh soch kay ya Ali madad bol raha hai kay Hazrat Ali uski awaz sun rahay hain ya woh shakhs hazrat Ali say mukhatib hai... jabkay Hazrat Ali ka inteqqal hochuka hai ... aur na hi to woh hazir o nazir hain.. Hazir o Nazir sirf eik alah ki zaaat hai na kay kisi aur ki...
agar hazrat Ali madad karsaktay to woh sab say pehlay apnay Betoon ki madad kartay...


QUOTE
Hamaray Aima Tahireen apni khudadad salahiyatoon aur taqatoon se hamaray masail hal kartay hain aur yeh baat to bilkul darust hai ke dunya waloon ka sara ilm, saari taqattain, tamam tar salahiyatain chahada masoomeen ke ilm, salahiyatoon aur taqatoon ke muqablay main aisi hi hain jaisay suraj ke muqablay main rakh ka zarra.


kya Allah swt nay kahin yeh bola kay koi aisa shakhs kisi ki madad karsakta hia jiska Inteqqaal hogaya hoo ?? aap is say kya sabit karna chahtay hian kay aapka Aima hazir o Nazir hain /???
janab hazir o Nazir sirf allah ki zaat hai aur koi nahi... yeh Shirk nahi hai to aur kya hia.. aapkay aima agar zinda hootay to kisi ki maadad karsaktay thay.. jaisay kay duniyawi kamoon mein eik insaan doosray insanon ki madad karta hai.. but they are all dead....

aur Allah swt nay sab sayziada ilm Nabi pbuh ko ata kya na kisi aur ko....

aur masoom sirf allah kay nabi hotay hain.. dont think i m critisizing the status of sahaba but allah nay hamesha nabion ko gunahon say dooor rakha hia .. aur unki hifazat khud ki hai...
for Eg
Noooh AS
Yousuf AS
LOOT AS
etc etc...


QUOTE
Is liye hum Ya Ali Mada ya Ali maula yun to har waqt hi kehtay hain laikin un mushkillat main khas taur par kehtay hain jinhain na to koi doctor door kar sakta hai, na hi dunya ka koi engineer, badshah ya wazir.


again madad sirf allah hi ki zaat daite hia...
ya Allah Madad / Ya Ali madad ???
is say kya sabit hoota hia jsiay aik insaan allah say madad mang raha hai waisay hi aap Ali (RA) say madad mang rahay hian waseela to hai hi nahi beech mein agar aap waseela ki baat kartay hain to aap YA ALI MADAD nahi balkay YA ALLAH hamain ALI (RA) kay sadqay ya Nabi pbuh kay sadqay ata farma ...
na kay directly unsay sawal karaingay...
aur mushkilaat mein sirf Allah hi madad kartay hain na kay Hazrat Ali (RA)
han agar koi shakhs aapkay samnay hai to aap us say duniawi madad lay saktay hian aap usko pukar saktay hian coz kay woh aapkay samnay hai...
but hazrat Ali (ra) ka wisaal hochuka hai .. woh ab hazir o nazir nahi hain..

QUOTE
Haan yeh baat bilkul darust hai ke Allah ke siwa kisi se sawal karma shirk hai laikin jin hastiyoon se sawal karnay ki ijazat khud allah ne di ahi in se sawal karma shirk nahin ain ibadat hai.

janab e ali Quran ki ayat..
hum sirf teri hi ibadat kartay hain aur tujhhi say madad mangtay hain... aur allah nay kis book mein kis jaga likha hai kay in hastion say mangoo mein doonga ??? yahan tak kay allah swt nay khud quran mein nabi pbuh ko bola kay (mafhoom)

Aye mohammad pbuh aap farmadijiye kay meray liya sirf allah hi kafi hia
aur aapsay kisnay bola ya koi aise kitaab kay jismein likha hoo kay insay mangna ibadat hai ?? akhir kaunsi aise kitab hai jismen mulsims ko shirk karnay ka kaha jaraha hai ....
janab e ali quran allah ki kitaab hai ismein kahin bhi koi tarmeem ya gunjaish nahi.. har cheez hurf e akhir hai .. agar allah nay eik chez aik jaga mana farmadi to woh har jaga mana hi hai aisa kahin bhi nahi iha kay eik jaga eik chez mana hai too doosri jaga usi chez ko allow kya gaya hai ..

jab allah nay eik jaga farma diya kay
HUm teri hi ibadat kartay hain aur tujh hi say madad mangtay hian to allah SWT nay quran mein kahin yeh nahi bola kay kisi hasti say mangoo...


QUOTE
Agar koi insaan doosray insaan se yeh samajh kar sawal karay ke who insaan apni zaati taqat se masla hal kar de ga to yeh shirk hai. maslan aik mareez yeh samjhay ke usay jo sihat hasil hoi hai woh doctor ki zaati salahiyat ya dawa ki taseer se haasil hoi hai to usne doctor ya dawa ko allah ka shareek bana dia. yeh shirk hai. laikin agar aik mareez yeh yaqeen rakhta ho ke zindagi, maut, sihat eyh sab allah ke haath main hain aur ilaaj mualja sihat yaabi ka aik zariya hai, doctor ke pass jo ilm, shafa yaabi ki taqat hai aur dawa main marz ko khatam karnay ki jo taseer hai uska paida karnay wala allah hai yeh salahiyatain, ilm aur taseer doctor ya dawa ko allah hi ne ata ki hain ato aisi surat main apna ilaaj karwana wajib amal hai aur ibadat sa darja rakhta hai. Ab tum khud hi batao ke rozana lakhoon karoroon musalman haspataloon main doctors hata ke ghair muslim doctors se shafa yaabi ke liye madad mangaty hain aur sihat yaab ho jatay hain. ab agar yeh log beemari ki surat main sirf dua hi kartay rahain to na sirf bohat jald maut ke mun main chalain jayain gay balkay allah ki azeem naimat yaani jism aur sihat ki hifazat na karnay ki saza ke bhi mustahiq hotay. Aur bohat si misalain mujood hain maslan gari ki battery kharab ho jaye aur koi insaan yeh chahay ke sirf allah ko pukaranay se battery dobara charge ho jaye to aisa kabhi bhi nahin ho sakta. makan bannay ke khawahishmand afraad sirf khaali plot par beth kar ya allah ya allah kartay rahain to is plot par qiyamat tak koi imarat tameer anhin hogi. Makaan bananay ke liye engineers, naqsha bananay walay, mistari, mazdooron aur cement ki zaroorat hoti hai.

SIrf duayoon se na deewarain uth sakti hain na chatain par sakti hain, is liye ke dunya ALAM I ASBAAB hai yaani yaha har cheez ke honay ke liye kisi na kisi sabab ki zaroorat parti hai. Allah tala ne zindagi ke liye zaroori tamam asbaab dunya main paida kiye hain, yahan insaan hi insaan ke kaam ata hai laikin allah tala ke hukam, iraday aur taufeeq ke mutabiq is liye ke MUSABIB_I_HAQEEQI yaani in asbaab ka asal khaliq o malik allah hai. AB jis tarah mareez shafa yaabi ke liye doctor se, makan bananay ke khawahish mand afraad mistari mazdoroon se aur ilm ke talabgaar usataza se madad ke talabgar hotay ahin,


Duniwai kaam mein koi bih kisi say madad mang skta hai coz kay woh uskay samnay hoota hai ..
jaisay ki kay khaibar kay mokay par nabi pbuh nay Hazrat Ali (RA) say madad talab ki..
jaisay kay CAVE mein Nabi pbuh kay sath HAzrat Abu bakr (RA) thay...
to duniyawi kamoon mein to koi bhi kisi say bih madad mangsakta hia .. ismein koi harj nahi na hi to yeh shirk hai

but u wrote
QUOTE
isi tarah IHL-e-BAIT ke mananay walay apnay nabi HAZOOR -i-PAk, ameer ul momineen hazrat Ali, un ki aulaad main se ksii bhi imam se madad mangtay hain to yeh shirk anhin AIN IBADAT HAI.

Kya kabhi kisi nabi nay bola kay meray baad mujhsay madad mangoo ???
kya kabih kisi sahabi nay bola kay meray baad mujhsay maadad mango ???
kya kabih hazrat ali nay bola kay meray janay kay baad mujhsay madad mangoo ??
kya kabih hasan n hussain (RA) nay bola kay meray janay kay baad mujhsay maadad mangoo ????

aur agar koi aise baaton kay baray mein koi hadith bhi daita hia to woh quran ki taleemat kay sarasara khilaaf hoogi Q kay allah swt nay khud Quran mein farmaya hai kay

aur Madad sirf Allah hi ki taraf say hai
Surah e Ale imran

pas tum allah hi ki ibadat karoo aur kisi ko iska shareek na tehraooo
Surah Nisa


aur aise beshumar ayatain jismein allah swt nay baar baar apni wahdaniat ka zikr kya hai ... kisi aur say mangnay ka to koi sawal hi nahi hoota ....


QUOTE
I HOPE I MANAGED TO CONVINCE U...IF NTO THEN I WILL SAY THAT MISHA AGAR AAP ALLAH NA KARAY AGLI DAFA BEEMAR HOIN TO DOCTOR KE PASS MAT JANA CUZ DOCTOR ALLAH NAHIN HAI AUR GHAIR ALLAH SE MADAD MANGNA SHIRK HAI.


as I ve explained, kay duniawai kamon mein to koi bhi ksii say madad mang sakta hai...


QUOTE
Imam Ali (AS) as a Vali or Maula proved from Quran:

[Shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
The following explanations of the Holy Qur'an state that this divine verse was revealed in honor of Imam Ali's (as) when he gave his ring to a beggar whilst he was bowing during prayers.

Proved from Hadeeth:

Collection of hadeeth provided by suni’s scholar Dr Tahir ul Qadri in his book “Ghadir Declaration”. Please visit the link:

http://www.research.com.pk/home/fmri/books...dex.minhaj?id=0
http://www.research.com.pk/home/fmri/books...dex.minhaj?id=0


thank u brother ... but jinka aapnay reference dia hia yeh loog to khud shirk e khaifi mein mubtila hain...
yeh loog to khud al madad ya Rasool allah kehtay hain..
almadad ya Ghaus e Azam kahtay hain....

in misaloon say acha hai kay ap aise reference hi na dain.. aur yeh hadithain to bohat door ki baat hian.. mein to quran say agay abhi aa hi nahi raha....

aur meiany pehlay hi boldia tha kay agar koi hadtih quran ki taleemat kay against jayegi to hum usko hamesha neglect karaingay...


QUOTE
sunni ) Follow Sunnat-E-Ali (Ahle sunnat Kalma )
and We Follow Sunnat-e- Rasool (Ahle Tashi Kalma )
if u wana know tht how, then i have an authentic reason (According to many books of AHL-E-SUNNAT and AHL-TASHEE ) ..


koi asie book koi aisa reference koi aise hadith jismein nabi nay yeh bola hoo ummat ko kay yeh kalma parhooo ????

Status of Wali
jasiay kay Shia hazrat aksar yeh boltay hian kay ali (RA) allah kay wali hain jo kay beshak hian but kya nabi pbuh nay kabih yeh bola kay
Abu Bakr Allah ko mehboob nah ihain ??
Usman Allah ko mehboob nahi hain ??
Umar Allah ko mehboob nahi hain ???

Nabi pbuh Q jummay kay khutbay kay dauran yeh lafz bola kartay thay kay mera har ummat Abu bakr n Umar n Usman n Ali kay jaisa hoo ??


QUOTE
In ZULASHEERA : "Jub Huzoor (saw) ne HIDAYAT daina start ki thi HAZRAT ABDUL MUTTALIB(as) K ghar to farmaya .....

" K aaay giroh-e - Abdul muttalib ! MAY TUMHARE LIE DUNYA OR AKHRAT KI BEHTAREEN NAIMATAIN LAY KER AYA HOON .. TUM ME SE KON HAY JO MERI MADAD KARAY , MERA BHAI BANAY , OR MERA WASI BANAY or JO MUJH SE MADAD KA WADA KARAY GA WOH AAJ SE MERA WAZEER HOGA , AAJ HI SE MERA KHALIFA HOGA ...


NOW u pplz tell me k is msg may LA ILAHA ILLALALAH kahan hay , Is may MUHAMMAD_RASULULLAH kahan hay ..........................


respected brother Nabi pbuh nay apna pehlay mesg hi yehi dia tha kay nahi koi mabood allah kay .. aur nabi pbuh allah kay rasool hain...
aur yeh cheez quran mein 2 parts mein khud wazaye taur par bayan hoi hai..


QUOTE
Payghumber(s.a.w) ne abhi ISLAM ka zikar bhi nahi kiya thaaa k MOLA ALI (a.s) uthay or kaha k " MAY GAWAHI DAITA HOON K ALLAH AIK HAY OR MUHAMAD (SAW) uske RUSOOL hayn ( jo k ahle sunnat ka kalma hay ) Means SUNNAT-E-ALI hay ..

Mola Ali farmatay hayn k " MAY AAP KI ATAAT KAROONGA , AAPK DUSHMANON KI HADDIAN TORONGA , APNI JAAN QURBAN KERDOONGA , MAIRE BAAP NE MUJHE AISI HI TARBIYAT DI HAY K RISALAT KO BACHAO "

Huzoor (saw) ne Jub ye suna to Mola Ali (as) k qareeb aaye or MOLA ki gurdan per PYAR se haath phera . Saare Mujmay se mukhatib ho ker farmaya ...

" JO SUN RAHA HAY WOH SUNLAY , JO DAIKH RAHA HAY WOH DAIKHLAY , ALI MERA MADADGAR HAY , MERA WASI HAY , ALLAH KA WALI HAY "

90 Crore muslims jo kalma parh rahe hayn woh ALI ki sunnat hay , NABI k nahi ... ! . khair aagay sunyeee


wat do u mean by this ?? kay kya hum loog aaj sirf ali (RA) sunnat ko follow kar rahay hian ??
kya nabi apna mesg maazallah hum tak convey nahi karapye ???
ya yeh baat sirf un hazrat nay suni jinki tadad ka bih koi ilm nahi ???
janab aap koi asie books koi asie hadith to batain kay nabi nay bola hoo ummat ko kay meray baad yeh kalma parhoo ???
kya kabi nabi nay bola kay meray baad yeh kalma parhna ??
kya kabi nabi pbuh nay khud yeh kalma parha ????


QUOTE
to abb rha kalma ka sawaal...jo shaks LA ILA HA ILLALLAH MUHAMMADIO RASSULALLAH parhay ga woh musalmaan to jo jayega laikin momin nahi.....

Kis book mein aisa likha hia ????
agar koi shakhs aise jhoti taweelat paishn bhi kar raha hai to iska matlab yeh hai kay nabi pbuh nay sab ko yehi kalma parhnay ka bola to Maazallah kay nabi nay apna mesg sahi convey nah ikay ??
halankay nabi ko Ali un wali ulllah ka mesg convey karna chahiya tha ??
halankay nabi pbuh to qayamat tak kay liya rehmat ban kay aye... ??
kya nabi sab ko momin nahi banana chahtay thay ????
kya nabi nahi chatay thay kay loog jahannum ki aag say bach jayen... ????

QUOTE
Hamara kalma.....ALI UN WALI ULLAH WASI O RASUL ALLAH WA KHALIFATU BILA FASL.......ko jo bhi parh lega woh musalmaan ke saath saath momin bhi ban jayega........

to hum kia huye ....MOMIN.......

maula salamat rakhay YA ALI MADAD kehnay walo ko.....



Shirk karnay wala Momin to kya muslim nahi hoota...
aur jo jo ya Ali madad keh raha hai woh Shirk kar raha hai aur Shirk kay baray mein Allah nay quran mein farma dia hai kay sab say bari gumhari hi Shirk hia ..
aur allah sab maaf kardayga jisko chahay siwaye shirk kay..

may allah help us to understand..

waiting for ur reply Allah hafiz






alyasghar4u - March 8, 2005 05:26 PM (GMT)
HUMARI MERZI
BEFORE POKING YOUR NOSE INTO OTHER PEOPLE'S BUSINESS,
BRING YOUR EYEBALL DOWN TO YOUR OWN religion, AND FIND OUT WHAT
PROBLEMS ARE WITHIN YOUR religion BEFORE POINTING FINGERS. :music:::

josh - March 8, 2005 06:15 PM (GMT)
:salam::
mr i guess your and our religion is only one
then y r you saying that your and our religion is
not the same??
i guess you are now accepting tht you have changed the
religion to a considerable extent!!!

mOhSiN - March 8, 2005 09:58 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ashhad4u @ Mar 8 2005, 12:59 AM)
QUOTE
matam is liye kartay hain kay jab woh ghazwa-e-auhad ka wakia tha hazoor(S.A.W) ka dant -e-mubarak shaheed hua tha tou sahaba-e-akram nay apnay saray dant toor diye thay aur hazoor nay kuch nahi bola tha .... yaar yehan tou hazoor(S.A.W) ka sara khandan shaheed kar diya gaya kaisay na karein matam bbibi zainab kay sir say khoon sab say pehlay nikla jab imam mera shaheed hua ..........


jab mohammad owais qurni (RA) nay apnay saray dandan e mubarak shahed karliya to nabi pbuh nay unko tanbiah farmaye ... again nabi ka koi hukum Quran kay against nahi hoota.. agar koi shakhs yeh bolta hai kay nabi pbuh nay unko aisa kam karnay par shabashi di ya khush hoay to its mean kay (maaazallah) nabi ka hukum Quran kay against hai jismein allah swt nay musalmanon ko sabar kanrnay ki talqeen ki hai...

aur matam jaise koi cheez kabhi deen ka hissa hoi hi nahi hai... agar matam islam ka hissa hota to nabi pbuh hazrat Hamza kay liya matam kartay...
hazrat ali nabi pbuh kay liya matam kartay...
hazrat hasan n hussain (RA) hazrat ali kay liya matam kartay... but aise koi cheez kabhi deen ka hissa rahi hi nhi hai...
agar koi shahks yeh bolta hai kay matam fitrat mein hai to extremisim nah ihai islam mein.. islam kahin par yeh nahi bolta kay apnay aapko nuksan pohanchaoo... well agar apko apna jazba dikhana hai to un rastoon par chalain jin par hazrat hussain (RA) chalay.. aur deen ko sarbuland kya..


yaar aisay kon in logon main say jo app nay likhay hain shaheed hua ....bbion kay sath kya kya mushkilat pesh aaian .......... maulana kaukab ARY par aatay hain unhonay nay bhi yeahi kaha kay imam hussain nay jo kurbani dee hai us ko sunnay kay bad jo sacha momin hoo ga us ki ankh main bhi ansoo ajjnay chahiyin..... kitnay log hain jo gham-e-hussain manatay hain sunni ho kar bhi ......... aur main nay bauhat dekhay hain jo chuti mana rahay hotay hain picnic hoo rahay hotay hain ....... 7th mauharum ko main majlis say aaraha tha kay rock garden main shadi hoo rahi thi aur itnay ba parda log thay aurton aur mardon ka alag intezam tha ....... kaukab sahab nay tou matam kay baray main bhi farmaya hai kay matam do kismon ka hota hai kay app apni chaht ka izhar kartay hain aur dusray kay guzar janay par itnay behal ho jatay hain uss state main matam mana nahi hai ...........

mOhSiN - March 8, 2005 10:07 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ashhad4u @ Mar 8 2005, 10:07 PM)
:salam::: Mohsin..


first of all i would like to tell u kay mein Hzrat Ali . Hasan n Hussain ki bih itni hi respect karta hoon jitni kay Umar Abu Bakr Usman (RA) waghaira ki karta hoon.. aur in logon ka jo muqaam hai jo rutba hai wahan tak to hum loog phoanch bhi nahi saktay...



QUOTE
WE Used To call him Molaa As Our beloved Prophet (pbuh) Used this WOrd for Ali (a.s) in Hajjatul Wedda the day whn Our Religion Islam was completed ....

Man Kuto Mola fa Haza Ali un Mola....
...jis ka main maula us ka ALi maula..
these r the words Prophet(pbuh) used .... ill also post the details of tht Kudba later... for ur ref
SO shortly we are following the Sunat Of prophet (saw).. and this is enough as a reason for calling Ali(a.s) mola..


jasiay kaay aapnay bola kay jab nabi pbuh nay yeh alfaz bolay kay jiska mein mola uska ali mola uar yeh bih faramya kay deen mukammal hogaya to janab iskay sath nabi pbuh nay Surah Anfaal ki kuch ayatain bhi parheen then.. any way.. agar accordin to shia beleif kay ALi un wali ullah kalmay ka hissa hoota to nabi pbuh zaroor ummat ko yeh boltay yeh parhoo unhonay yeh bola zaroor tha kay ali un wali ullah aur yakeenan bola hia but unhonay yeh nahi bola kay is cheez ko kalmay mein add karoo..
as i mentioned earlier kay us time 1.25 lakhs sahaba maujood thay even Hazrat Ali (RA) khud bhi maujood thay kya us din kay baad hazrat Ali (RA) yeh kalma parhna start kardia ??? kya kabih kisi sahabi nay isko as a Kalma recite kya ????

agar yeh kalmay ka hissa hoota to kya nabi pbuh isko parhnay kay baad boltay kay deen mukammal hogaya ???? yani kay jisnay yeh parha nahi iska deen mukammal nahi ???
aur us say pehlay jo dawat e tableegh nahi pbuh daitay rahay woh to incomplete hogaye ????



walekum salam ashad brother

rasool(S.A.W) nay bilkul yeah bad main hi farmaya tha.....

mOhSiN - March 8, 2005 10:22 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ashhad4u @ Mar 8 2005, 10:07 PM)
:
agar yeh kalmay ka hissa hoota to kya nabi pbuh isko parhnay kay baad boltay kay deen mukammal hogaya ???? yani kay jisnay yeh parha nahi iska deen mukammal nahi ???
aur us say pehlay jo dawat e tableegh nahi pbuh daitay rahay woh to incomplete hogaye ????



us say pehlay hazrat ali (a.s) ki maulaiat ka hukum bhi tou nahi kiya tha ....
gadir ka wakiyay ki agar tasfeer main jaein tou pata chalta hai i will post you the link later bas ek dafa 6th mauharum ki majlis sun loo talib jauhary ki ancholee wali meray pass kay link kho gaya hai us website ka ..........
shayad app ko mana hoo majllisein sunna ......


jo app logon kay khilaf zara si bhi baat kar day app us ko shirk karnay wala bana detay hain jab tahir alqadri sahab shiaon kay khilaf baat kartay thay tab tou app logon ki ankhon ka tara thay aur jab momin huay tou app logon nay un ko bhi .............



mOhSiN - March 8, 2005 11:28 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ashhad4u @ Mar 8 2005, 10:07 PM)


QUOTE
U r takin all of it in a wrong way......to ask anyone EXCEPT Allah is a sin.but to ask anyone to intervene is not a sin.let me remind u ke khaliq aur maabood ke mabain taluq kaim karwanay walay bhi yeh imam aur nabi hi hain.




001.005 Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
Al-Qur'an, 001.005 (Al-Fatiha [The Opening])


i think u r talking about WASEELA... plz correct me if i m wrong...
allah swt nay yeh kahin bola kay agar direct mujhsay mangoo to mein nahi doonga ??? balkay Surah fatiha mein saaf saaf yeh baat agaye hai kay

HUM TERI HI IBADAT KARTAY HAIN AUR TUJHISAY MADAD MANGTAY HAIN

kya ap yeh sochtay hain kay agar aap allah say direct mangaingay to allah swt aapki baat nahi sunaingay ???



QUOTE
jab khuda ne apni hidayat insanoon ko direct nahin pohanchayi balkay waseelay chunay...to phir hum kyun nahin in waseelon se madad mang saktay.is belief ke saath ke karnay wlai to sab kuch khuda ki zaat hai magar woh waseelay hamain hadayat de saktay hain to hamari problems solve bhi kar saktay hain..

Allah swt nay insaan ki rahnumaye kay liya apnay khas bandon ko yani nabion ko chuna but allah swt apna mesg convey karnay mein nabion kay mohtaj nahi thay Mind it !
jaisay kay allah Surah e ikhlaas mein farma rahay hain
Alllah o Samad
yeh to allah ki shan nahi hai kay woh kisi banday say khud kalam karay ...but agian allah apna mesg Convey karnay mein Nabion kay mohtaaj nahi hian...

aur jaisay kay aapnay bola kay HUM Q IN WASEELON SAY MADAD nahi mang saktay
madad aap insay nahi mang saktay balkay Inkay waseelon say mang saktay hain.. Q kay yeh madad dainay kay qabil nahi hain ab..

aur jasiay kay apnay bola kay yeh waseela aapko hidayat daingay .. to janab Allah swt nay saaf Quran mein farma dia hai kay

HIDAYAT SIRF ALLAH HI TARAF SAY HIA aur jisko Allah ki hidayat mili woh kamiyab hogaya

aur allah kay ilawa na hi to koi aapki Problem solve karsakta hai... aur madad dainay wali zaat sirf allah ki hia... agar aap yeh sochtay hain kay Ya Ali madad kehnay say aapki madad horahi hia to yeh Shirk hai Q kay Ya arabic word jis kay meaning hi Hazir o Nazir kay ya Maujood rehnay kay ...
ya agar aap kisi ko muhatib kar rahay hain too...
agar koi shakhs ya ALI madad bol raha hai to its mean kay woh yeh soch kay ya Ali madad bol raha hai kay Hazrat Ali uski awaz sun rahay hain ya woh shakhs hazrat Ali say mukhatib hai... jabkay Hazrat Ali ka inteqqal hochuka hai ... aur na hi to woh hazir o nazir hain.. Hazir o Nazir sirf eik alah ki zaaat hai na kay kisi aur ki...
agar hazrat Ali madad karsaktay to woh sab say pehlay apnay Betoon ki madad kartay...


QUOTE
Hamaray Aima Tahireen apni khudadad salahiyatoon aur taqatoon se hamaray masail hal kartay hain aur yeh baat to bilkul darust hai ke dunya waloon ka sara ilm, saari taqattain, tamam tar salahiyatain chahada masoomeen ke ilm, salahiyatoon aur taqatoon ke muqablay main aisi hi hain jaisay suraj ke muqablay main rakh ka zarra.


kya Allah swt nay kahin yeh bola kay koi aisa shakhs kisi ki madad karsakta hia jiska Inteqqaal hogaya hoo ?? aap is say kya sabit karna chahtay hian kay aapka Aima hazir o Nazir hain /???
janab hazir o Nazir sirf allah ki zaat hai aur koi nahi... yeh Shirk nahi hai to aur kya hia.. aapkay aima agar zinda hootay to kisi ki maadad karsaktay thay.. jaisay kay duniyawi kamoon mein eik insaan doosray insanon ki madad karta hai.. but they are all dead....

aur Allah swt nay sab sayziada ilm Nabi pbuh ko ata kya na kisi aur ko....

aur masoom sirf allah kay nabi hotay hain.. dont think i m critisizing the status of sahaba but allah nay hamesha nabion ko gunahon say dooor rakha hia .. aur unki hifazat khud ki hai...
for Eg
Noooh AS
Yousuf AS
LOOT AS
etc etc...


QUOTE
Is liye hum Ya Ali Mada ya Ali maula yun to har waqt hi kehtay hain laikin un mushkillat main khas taur par kehtay hain jinhain na to koi doctor door kar sakta hai, na hi dunya ka koi engineer, badshah ya wazir.


again madad sirf allah hi ki zaat daite hia...
ya Allah Madad / Ya Ali madad ???
is say kya sabit hoota hia jsiay aik insaan allah say madad mang raha hai waisay hi aap Ali (RA) say madad mang rahay hian waseela to hai hi nahi beech mein agar aap waseela ki baat kartay hain to aap YA ALI MADAD nahi balkay YA ALLAH hamain ALI (RA) kay sadqay ya Nabi pbuh kay sadqay ata farma ...
na kay directly unsay sawal karaingay...
aur mushkilaat mein sirf Allah hi madad kartay hain na kay Hazrat Ali (RA)
han agar koi shakhs aapkay samnay hai to aap us say duniawi madad lay saktay hian aap usko pukar saktay hian coz kay woh aapkay samnay hai...
but hazrat Ali (ra) ka wisaal hochuka hai .. woh ab hazir o nazir nahi hain..

QUOTE
Haan yeh baat bilkul darust hai ke Allah ke siwa kisi se sawal karma shirk hai laikin jin hastiyoon se sawal karnay ki ijazat khud allah ne di ahi in se sawal karma shirk nahin ain ibadat hai.

janab e ali Quran ki ayat..
hum sirf teri hi ibadat kartay hain aur tujhhi say madad mangtay hain... aur allah nay kis book mein kis jaga likha hai kay in hastion say mangoo mein doonga ??? yahan tak kay allah swt nay khud quran mein nabi pbuh ko bola kay (mafhoom)

Aye mohammad pbuh aap farmadijiye kay meray liya sirf allah hi kafi hia
aur aapsay kisnay bola ya koi aise kitaab kay jismein likha hoo kay insay mangna ibadat hai ?? akhir kaunsi aise kitab hai jismen mulsims ko shirk karnay ka kaha jaraha hai ....
janab e ali quran allah ki kitaab hai ismein kahin bhi koi tarmeem ya gunjaish nahi.. har cheez hurf e akhir hai .. agar allah nay eik chez aik jaga mana farmadi to woh har jaga mana hi hai aisa kahin bhi nahi iha kay eik jaga eik chez mana hai too doosri jaga usi chez ko allow kya gaya hai ..

jab allah nay eik jaga farma diya kay
HUm teri hi ibadat kartay hain aur tujh hi say madad mangtay hian to allah SWT nay quran mein kahin yeh nahi bola kay kisi hasti say mangoo...


QUOTE
Agar koi insaan doosray insaan se yeh samajh kar sawal karay ke who insaan apni zaati taqat se masla hal kar de ga to yeh shirk hai. maslan aik mareez yeh samjhay ke usay jo sihat hasil hoi hai woh doctor ki zaati salahiyat ya dawa ki taseer se haasil hoi hai to usne doctor ya dawa ko allah ka shareek bana dia. yeh shirk hai. laikin agar aik mareez yeh yaqeen rakhta ho ke zindagi, maut, sihat eyh sab allah ke haath main hain aur ilaaj mualja sihat yaabi ka aik zariya hai, doctor ke pass jo ilm, shafa yaabi ki taqat hai aur dawa main marz ko khatam karnay ki jo taseer hai uska paida karnay wala allah hai yeh salahiyatain, ilm aur taseer doctor ya dawa ko allah hi ne ata ki hain ato aisi surat main apna ilaaj karwana wajib amal hai aur ibadat sa darja rakhta hai. Ab tum khud hi batao ke rozana lakhoon karoroon musalman haspataloon main doctors hata ke ghair muslim doctors se shafa yaabi ke liye madad mangaty hain aur sihat yaab ho jatay hain. ab agar yeh log beemari ki surat main sirf dua hi kartay rahain to na sirf bohat jald maut ke mun main chalain jayain gay balkay allah ki azeem naimat yaani jism aur sihat ki hifazat na karnay ki saza ke bhi mustahiq hotay. Aur bohat si misalain mujood hain maslan gari ki battery kharab ho jaye aur koi insaan yeh chahay ke sirf allah ko pukaranay se battery dobara charge ho jaye to aisa kabhi bhi nahin ho sakta. makan bannay ke khawahishmand afraad sirf khaali plot par beth kar ya allah ya allah kartay rahain to is plot par qiyamat tak koi imarat tameer anhin hogi. Makaan bananay ke liye engineers, naqsha bananay walay, mistari, mazdooron aur cement ki zaroorat hoti hai.

SIrf duayoon se na deewarain uth sakti hain na chatain par sakti hain, is liye ke dunya ALAM I ASBAAB hai yaani yaha har cheez ke honay ke liye kisi na kisi sabab ki zaroorat parti hai. Allah tala ne zindagi ke liye zaroori tamam asbaab dunya main paida kiye hain, yahan insaan hi insaan ke kaam ata hai laikin allah tala ke hukam, iraday aur taufeeq ke mutabiq is liye ke MUSABIB_I_HAQEEQI yaani in asbaab ka asal khaliq o malik allah hai. AB jis tarah mareez shafa yaabi ke liye doctor se, makan bananay ke khawahish mand afraad mistari mazdoroon se aur ilm ke talabgaar usataza se madad ke talabgar hotay ahin,


Duniwai kaam mein koi bih kisi say madad mang skta hai coz kay woh uskay samnay hoota hai ..
jaisay ki kay khaibar kay mokay par nabi pbuh nay Hazrat Ali (RA) say madad talab ki..
jaisay kay CAVE mein Nabi pbuh kay sath HAzrat Abu bakr (RA) thay...
to duniyawi kamoon mein to koi bhi kisi say bih madad mangsakta hia .. ismein koi harj nahi na hi to yeh shirk hai

but u wrote
QUOTE
isi tarah IHL-e-BAIT ke mananay walay apnay nabi HAZOOR -i-PAk, ameer ul momineen hazrat Ali, un ki aulaad main se ksii bhi imam se madad mangtay hain to yeh shirk anhin AIN IBADAT HAI.

Kya kabhi kisi nabi nay bola kay meray baad mujhsay madad mangoo ???
kya kabih kisi sahabi nay bola kay meray baad mujhsay maadad mango ???
kya kabih hazrat ali nay bola kay meray janay kay baad mujhsay madad mangoo ??
kya kabih hasan n hussain (RA) nay bola kay meray janay kay baad mujhsay maadad mangoo ????

aur agar koi aise baaton kay baray mein koi hadith bhi daita hia to woh quran ki taleemat kay sarasara khilaaf hoogi Q kay allah swt nay khud Quran mein farmaya hai kay

aur Madad sirf Allah hi ki taraf say hai
Surah e Ale imran

pas tum allah hi ki ibadat karoo aur kisi ko iska shareek na tehraooo
Surah Nisa


aur aise beshumar ayatain jismein allah swt nay baar baar apni wahdaniat ka zikr kya hai ... kisi aur say mangnay ka to koi sawal hi nahi hoota ....


QUOTE
I HOPE I MANAGED TO CONVINCE U...IF NTO THEN I WILL SAY THAT MISHA AGAR AAP ALLAH NA KARAY AGLI DAFA BEEMAR HOIN TO DOCTOR KE PASS MAT JANA CUZ DOCTOR ALLAH NAHIN HAI AUR GHAIR ALLAH SE MADAD MANGNA SHIRK HAI.


as I ve explained, kay duniawai kamon mein to koi bhi ksii say madad mang sakta hai...


QUOTE
Imam Ali (AS) as a Vali or Maula proved from Quran:

[Shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
The following explanations of the Holy Qur'an state that this divine verse was revealed in honor of Imam Ali's (as) when he gave his ring to a beggar whilst he was bowing during prayers.

Proved from Hadeeth:

Collection of hadeeth provided by suni’s scholar Dr Tahir ul Qadri in his book “Ghadir Declaration”. Please visit the link:

http://www.research.com.pk/home/fmri/books...dex.minhaj?id=0
http://www.research.com.pk/home/fmri/books...dex.minhaj?id=0


thank u brother ... but jinka aapnay reference dia hia yeh loog to khud shirk e khaifi mein mubtila hain...
yeh loog to khud al madad ya Rasool allah kehtay hain..
almadad ya Ghaus e Azam kahtay hain....

in misaloon say acha hai kay ap aise reference hi na dain.. aur yeh hadithain to bohat door ki baat hian.. mein to quran say agay abhi aa hi nahi raha....

aur meiany pehlay hi boldia tha kay agar koi hadtih quran ki taleemat kay against jayegi to hum usko hamesha neglect karaingay...


[

nad-e-ali parho ........... hades -e- kisa parhoo yaar
app dekho kay hum log mazaron par jatay hain kitnay loog jatay hain mazazaron par ............... allah kay naik bandon kay mazar hain un ko izat detay hain kon nahi jata mazaron par kitnay maujzat hotay hain baba abdulah shah ghazi ka mazar hai mazar kay ahatay main logon nay kabrein banwain hain hazaron fatiyahein parhi jati hain rooz............ matlab yeah hai kay allah say tou mangna hi mangna hai par jab waseela ki baat aati hai kitnay loog hazoor-e-akram(s.a.w) kay pass aatay thay kay humaray liye dua karein meray rasool(S.A.W) ki duaein aisi bhi kabool huin kay raat main hi khajoor kay lambay pair ugg gaye yeah bhi tou us admi nay waseela hi use kiya na ............. doctor kay hath main shifa hai tou sirf allah ki dii hui ............ warna allah nachahay tou doctor bhi kuch nhi kar sakta na hi maula ali kuch kar saktay hain .....

ashhad4u - March 9, 2005 02:08 AM (GMT)
:salam:: mohsin...

QUOTE
yaar aisay kon in logon main say jo app nay likhay hain shaheed hua ....bbion kay sath kya kya mushkilat pesh aaian .......... maulana kaukab ARY par aatay hain unhonay nay bhi yeahi kaha kay imam hussain nay jo kurbani dee hai us ko sunnay kay bad jo sacha momin hoo ga us ki ankh main bhi ansoo ajjnay chahiyin..... kitnay log hain jo gham-e-hussain manatay hain sunni ho kar bhi ......... aur main nay bauhat dekhay hain jo chuti mana rahay hotay hain picnic hoo rahay hotay hain ....... 7th mauharum ko main majlis say aaraha tha kay rock garden main shadi hoo rahi thi aur itnay ba parda log thay aurton aur mardon ka alag intezam tha ....... 


mein kisi Maulana ko beech mein lay kar nahi araha abhi ... jo bhi baat hoogi woh Quran n Hadith (authnetic) say hhorahi hai ... hazrat Hussain (RA) ki shahadat ka darja bohat azeem hai... but Matam... is cheez ka deen say koi talluq hai hi nahi... jasiay kay meiny oper bhi yeih boola kay kya nabi pbuh nay hazrat hamza (RA) ki death par matam kya ???
kya hazrat Ali nay matam kya ???
kya koi asie hadith jismein nabi pbuh nay ummat ko hukum dia ho matam karnay kya ??
kya kabih khud nabi pbuh nay matam kya hoo ???
kya kabhi hazrat hasan (RA) nay matam kya ???

jahan tak hai baat shadion ki to janab shadi to kisi bhi din hosakte hai aap 7th moharram ki kya bat kar rahay hian.. ??? kisi din ko ya kisi month ko kharab kehnay ka tasuwwur islam mein nahi iha... balkay aksar loog SAFAR kay month ko bura boltay hain balkay aise koi baat nahi....
shadi ap kisi bhi din kar saktay hian..
aur raha mohabbat jatanay ka sawal matam karkay.. to janab mohabbat tareekon par chal kay zahir hooti hia na kay matam karnay...
agar matam karnay say mohabbat zahir hooti tu humsay pehlay sahaba thay jo nabi say bohat mohabbat kartay thay woh matam kartay but unhonay isliya nahi kya coz kay yeh cheez deen mein kabih aye hi nahi..

QUOTE
kaukab sahab nay tou matam kay baray main bhi farmaya hai kay matam do kismon ka hota hai kay app apni chaht ka izhar kartay hain aur dusray kay guzar janay par itnay behal ho jatay hain uss state main matam mana nahi hai ...........


mein Kokab sahab par eman nahi laya balkay allah aur uskay deen par eman laya hoon.. mujhay nahi maloom kay unhonay kis waja say boldia kay matam jaiz hia jabkay yeh chez biddat hai aur bidddati ki namaz e janaza bhi nabi pbuh nay nahi parhi the... phir yeh kokab sahab kaun hogaye ??? deen mein matam ko jaiz kahnay walay ??


QUOTE
us say pehlay hazrat ali (a.s) ki maulaiat ka hukum bhi tou nahi kiya tha ....
gadir ka wakiyay ki agar tasfeer main jaein tou pata chalta hai i will post you the link later bas ek dafa 6th mauharum ki majlis sun loo talib jauhary ki ancholee wali meray pass kay link kho gaya hai us website ka ..........
shayad app ko mana hoo majllisein sunna ......

janb mein sirf aapsay yeh baat kah raha hoon kay jab nabi nay ummat ko aisa karnay ka means kalmay mein add karnay ka hukum hi nahi dia to koi usko kis tarha add karsakta hia kalmay mien ???
again kya kabi nabi nay ya Ali (RA) nay bola kay is cheez ko kalmay mein add karoo ????
agar yehi kalma e haq hoota to tableegh kay awwal din say yehi kalma hota ...
nabi pbuh nay q duniya kay har aadmi kay paas jakar sirf yeh bola kay

aye logo kkalma parhloo la ilaha illallah

yeh q nahi bola kay kalmay kay sath ali un wali ullah bhi parhoo ????

QUOTE
jo app logon kay khilaf zara si bhi baat kar day app us ko shirk karnay wala bana detay hain jab tahir alqadri sahab shiaon kay khilaf baat kartay thay tab tou app logon ki ankhon ka tara thay aur jab momin huay tou app logon nay un ko bhi .............

first of all brother mein kisi kay against ya favor mein baat nahi kar raha ..i m neutral from all sides.. mujhay jo bhi Quran n sahih ahadith say baat dai daiy mein accept karoonga... aur yeh qadri sahab... :) in logon kay to apnay hi aqaid khatray mein hain... biddatoon ko pala hoa hia in logon nay... any way agar yeh sahih sabit kardain kisi baat ko Quran o sunnat ki roshni say to mein inko guide karoonga but agar koi chez quran kay against hoogi to woh meray liya qabil e qabool nahi hoogi ... balkay shayad kisi bhi muslim kay liya qabil e qabool nahi hoogi..


QUOTE
nad-e-ali parho ........... hades -e- kisa parhoo yaar

respected brtoher mein to Quran say agay aya hi nahi abhi tak NAD E ALI ki kya baat kar rahay hoo ?????

001.005 Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
Al-Qur'an, 001.005 (Al-Fatiha [The Opening])



QUOTE
app dekho kay hum log mazaron par jatay hain kitnay loog jatay hain mazazaron par ............... allah kay naik bandon kay mazar hain un ko izat detay hain kon nahi jata mazaron par kitnay maujzat hotay hain baba abdulah shah ghazi ka mazar hai mazar kay ahatay main logon nay kabrein banwain hain hazaron fatiyahein parhi jati hain rooz


kya ap yeh kehsaktay hian kay Abdullah shah ghazi ki maghfirat hogaye hia ?? ya allah nay unki maghfirat ka wada karliya hia ???
kya allah unki ashra mubashra mein shamil kya iha ????
unsay to koi mang hi nahi sakta.. balkay jo loog wahan par jakar shirk yani unki qabroon par sajday kartay hain unko chahiya kay unki maghfirat kay liya dua karain.... aur rahi baat muaajzaat ki to aisay mujaazat aapko har relegion kay tassawwuf mein milaingay.. na kay sirf muslims kay relegion mein ...

QUOTE
matlab yeah hai kay allah say tou mangna hi mangna hai par jab waseela ki baat aati hai kitnay loog hazoor-e-akram(s.a.w) kay pass aatay thay kay humaray liye dua karein meray rasool(S.A.W) ki duaein aisi bhi kabool huin kay raat main hi khajoor kay lambay pair ugg gaye yeah bhi tou us admi nay waseela hi use kiya na ............. doctor kay hath main shifa hai tou sirf allah ki dii hui ............ warna allah nachahay tou doctor bhi kuch nhi kar sakta na hi maula ali kuch kar saktay hain .....


YA ALI MADAD / YA ALLAH MADAD ....
aik taraf allah say madad doosri taraf ali (RA) kay waseelay say madad but kya alfaz mein koi difference hia ?? nahi agar ali ra kay waseelay say madad mangain to ali madad nahi bolaingay balkay
Aye allah hamain ali ra kay waseelay say ata farma...

aur jo loog nabi phub kay paas atay thay to yeh nahi boltay thay kay
YA NABI MADAD .....

YA sirf Alllah kay sath use hoosakta hai ya jis say aap mukhatib hoon usko sath..



n alllah knows da best...


YA ALI - March 15, 2005 07:50 AM (GMT)
SALAM;
MANY AP KA SAWAL PARA MAY US KA BARA MAY SIRIF ITNA KHNA CHAHOO GI KA JISTARA AIK BACHA PADAHONA KA BAAD SIRIF APNA MA,BAAP KO FOLLOW KARTA HAY TU AAP YA BBAT SAMAJH KU NAHI JATA KA WHO HAMARA ABAOAJJDAD HAY HUM UN KO HI FOOLOW KARA GAY OR WHO ABAOAJJDAD JINKI FAZILAT KA KHUDA OUR RASOOL ATTRAF KAR CHUKA HAY HAY HAZRT MUHHHAMED P.B.U.H FARMA CHUKA KA JISNA ALI SAY BUGHAZ RAKH US NA MUJH SAY BUGHAZ RAKH LAKIN AFSOOS IS BAAT KO NA APP SAMJHA GAY OUR NA MANN RAHA HA IS BAAT KO SAMJHA OUR SAMJHA KA ISTRHA KI BAAT SAY AYSA SABIT HOTA HAY KA AAP KO HUM SAY NAHI HAZRAT ALI SAY
BUGHAZ
HAY

ashhad4u - March 15, 2005 07:58 AM (GMT)
Respected Sister..

meinay kab kaha kay mujhy hazrat ali ra say bughz hai ? mazallah... woh meray liya bih itnay hi respected hain jitnay kay aur sahaba hain....
but mein unko eik status tak mohabbat karsakta hoon na unko nabi kay status tak la sakta hoon aur na khuda kay status tak...

well agar aap ko discuss karna hai to plz aap is debate mein participate karian.. takay hamaray points clear hoon...
baat apnay forefathers ki ki hai to Quran mein yeh kab kaha hi ka andhi taqleed karoo ???

waiting for ur reply...




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